Cults - a warning

[cwj]

In my church search (haha), I've noticed that there are between 5 and 7 "pseudo-christian cults" within a short driving distance. Some are in Charles Town.
I say this only to warn anyone who, like myself, is looking for a church home.
Cults are dangerous not just spiritually, but psychologically and even physically as well.
Make sure you know just what your prospective church's beliefs are.

[caroline]

Isn't this a very subjective statement. What seperates your "Christian" churches from "pseudo christian churches". Where in your bible does it say which churches are right or wrong??

[KatherineA]

Isn't this a very subjective statement. What seperates your "Christian" churches from "pseudo christian churches". Where in your bible does it say which churches are right or wrong??

Exactly - one man's cult is another man's religion/church. The early Catholic Church was considered to be a blood-worshiping cult.

[WVDragonlady]

I was wondering how the OP knew that they were cults? Was there a sign outside saying they were? seriously. How did you know?
Now, I can believe that they are scams. There are some people around here that start their own "churches" just to get out of paying taxes and to scam other people into donating things and services and money to them and so that they don't have to actually work. My one set of neighbors are experts at this.
But, cults? *shrugs*

[Kensey]

I think cults are one of those "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it" kind of things. But a typical defining line between cult/non-cult is the extent to which members are manipulated psychologically -- in popular terms, "brainwashing". A typical example is when you see groups that build fortified compounds -- they don't do it because fortifications are cool, but because it's easier to control and manipulate the members when they literally cannot leave the group except on your terms.

I don't know of any compounds around here, but I wouldn't be surprised to find a few cult groups anywhere I went.

[chipgallo]

The term "pseudo Christian cult" gets some interesting results when searched on. Charismatic leadership, redefining of biblical terms, rewriting or revising the Bible, secret (and sometimes extreme) beliefs only revealed after rising through some levels, banning of outside religious writings, strong enforcement of rules such as not to leave the group, etc.

These are consistent with the cult awareness movement cult indicators, formerly exemplified by the Cult Awareness Network (CAN) before Scientology took it over.

As a former cult member, I believe it is best to "look before you leap." The internet is enemy of a cult by allowing former members, mental health professionals and traditional religious folks to share knowledge and experience that would have been more difficult to unearth in earlier times.

Good discussion.

[cwj]

Kensey and cgallo hit the nail on the head.
The term cult can be very subjective, as caroline said.

Here I'm referring to highly legalistic churches/groups that seek to control their members in every aspect of their lives. Even to the point of separating them from "unbeliever" family and friends. Medication tends to be frowned upon, indeed illness and hardship indicates a lack of faith.
Discipline is severe, shunning is often practiced. And if one tries to leave the church/group harassment often follows.
These are some of the characteristics of cults. I'm not referring to groups that I don't agree with theologically, but manipulative, legalistic, controlling, destructive groups.

[LFE]

I new a guy that joined this Rajneesh thing (this enters into the scary side of cult things if you ask me):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho_(Bhagwan_Shree_Rajneesh)

Me, I'll stick to following things like Godzilla vs. Blue Oyster Cult:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f56aOW8plZw

[LazerFlash]

Here I'm referring to highly legalistic churches/groups that seek to control their members in every aspect of their lives. Even to the point of separating them from "unbeliever" family and friends. Medication tends to be frowned upon, indeed illness and hardship indicates a lack of faith.
Discipline is severe, shunning is often practiced. And if one tries to leave the church/group harassment often follows.
These are some of the characteristics of cults. I'm not referring to groups that I don't agree with theologically, but manipulative, legalistic, controlling, destructive groups.This also describes a couple of different groups that purport to be Jewish, but in reality target young adult Jews - mainly on on college campuses - and try to 'convert' them to a blended form of Judeo-Christianity, where a belief in Christ as the Savior is melded with certain aspects of Judaism. My daughter was approached a couple of years ago, and it was only after she attended a Friday night service did she realize what she had gotten conned into. She was a lucky one.

[cwj]

Hey LazerFlash,
College campuses appear to be a main recruiting ground for cults.

Do you remember the name of the group that approached your daughter?
Here is a rather long article, but if you scroll down to "Cults and Look-Alikes"
it describes several that may or may not be the group you describe.
http://www.equip.org/articles/the-messianic-congregational-movement

Keep in mind that this article is from a thoroughly evangelical Christian perspective. However, by researching and exposing cults they have done a great service to non-Christians as well.

[LazerFlash]

Do you remember the name of the group that approached your daughter?She called them "Jews for Jesus", but her description didn't really fit what I knew (at the time) about their mode of operation. Unfortuantely, she didn't hang on to any of their literature. There are a few messianic Jewish congregations that do not fall into the 'cult' label, and then there are those that use every trick in the Cult Handbook.

[Jeremy]

Does S&B have cults:confused:

[LazerFlash]

Does S&B have cults:confused:Heh... heh... heh... Sometimes, I think that S&B *IS* a cult. :p

[sidhe]

Seems that I remember the word "cult" being used when talking about the organic farm down in Hillsboro. When I researched it, it sounded pretty cultish. They seem to have an awful lot of money to do what they've done, land in Lowdown county isn't cheap. In my research, I discovered that members give all of their worldly worth to the community, ka-ching, there are the bucks!! Two summers ago, my DIL was buying some veggies there when she was approched and invited to attend a service there at the farm. She was kinda interested but stated that her hubby (my son) was not religious and probably wouldn't come. "Good, he hasn't been poisoned by all the wrong beliefs" was the reply. They are part of the Twelve Tribes and (I just looked it up) do have a settlement listed in Hillsboro. Nice folks, great veggies and I've got my own church, thank you very much!!!

[cwj]

Hey Sidhe :) Hope you're doing well my friend.

The Twelve Tribes seem to be a cult of the exclusiveness/communal type.
I should probably stress here my belief that there are sincere, devout, kindly people within the groups I call cults.

[cwj]

Let me see there is this one cult I know of... when it goes through the world trying to convert people, not only did it kill many. But in order to make it easier for other religions to join, they decided the smart way to get them to join was to incorporate some of the beliefs of the other religion into theirs. This happened over and over and then they changed the names of the holidays to suit the new cult- I mean religion. So I guess like was said it is very subjective...

Very well, but I'm here talking about groups that even non-christians would consider at best weird, at worst dangerous.
The study of psychology, sociology and law are used by non-christians when looking into cults. A christian would add theology into the mix. A pagan may do the same.
I thinks it's important for seekers to know the dangers of these groups, hence the thread.

[longleaf]

Mormons.......cult?

[cwj]

What do they call that cult I was talking about... gee I cant remember.

Why don't you tell us about that cult?
Keep in mind that if you say Roman Catholicism you'll have half the board after you LOL J/K :D
(Yeah yeah I know your answer is that awful cult known as Christianity)

[cwj]

Mormons.......cult?

I would say (very cautiously) yes. But only the ones who actually practice their faith.
They appear to be much more mainline and modern than most of the pseudo-christian cults.
I actually debated with two of their missionaries in person about theology. Their personal "testimony" seemed rather rehearsed (I had to force myself not to laugh, sorry). Nice guys though :)

[caroline]

I'll quote Marx: "religon is the opiate of the masses'

[Nanuk]

I'll quote Marx: "religon is the opiate of the masses'


That's a pretty broad-based insult, which is laughable as it comes from a man whose doctrine has inspired failure and suffering on a grand scale everywhere that it has ever been put into practice.

[caroline]

That's a pretty broad-based insult, which is laughable as it comes from a man whose doctrine has inspired failure and suffering on a grand scale everywhere that it has ever been put into practice.
I fail to see how the statement is an insult?

[Nanuk]

I fail to see how the statement is an insult?

The implication--from Marx, an avowed atheist--that people who believe in a higher power only do so because they need an escape from reality could not be taken any other way.

[Jenniffer]

I never read it that way. An opiate:

1 a : a drug (as morphine or codeine) containing or derived from opium and tending to induce sleep and alleviate pain; broadly : narcotic (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/narcotic) 1a b : opioid (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opioid) 1
2 : something that induces rest or inaction or quiets uneasiness


ETA: And to give a little context:

Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man—state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d'honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

I fail to see how the statement is an insult?

Me, too. Opiate is a pretty good description. Heroin junkies cannot see the harm the heroin is doing to them and when they do, they simply don't care.

Many evangelicals are like this as well. I can't tell you how many gay people I have known whose parents have completely disowned them because they go against their religion. It's actually very painful to be cast away by your parents. Nobody can argue that disowning a child isn't a harmful thing to do. But they do it, in the name of their religion, and don't see the actual realness of what they do for some reason.

I like that quote. Thank you for sharing it.

[cwj]

Me, too. Opiate is a pretty good description. Heroin junkies cannot see the harm the heroin is doing to them and when they do, they simply don't care.

Many evangelicals are like this as well. I can't tell you how many gay people I have known whose parents have completely disowned them because they go against their religion. It's actually very painful to be cast away by your parents. Nobody can argue that disowning a child isn't a harmful thing to do. But they do it, in the name of their religion, and don't see the actual realness of what they do for some reason.

I like that quote. Thank you for sharing it.

I would question whether those parents were truly loving of their children to start with.
Disowning a child would be a very grave sin in the Christianity I embrace.
Separation from family and friends is a hallmark of a cult. In fact one of the reasons I brought the whole cult thing up is to warn fellow Christians as well as non-Christians about legalistic/exclusivity.

The unfortunate and self-righteous practices of some people who call themselves Christian is a damned (literally) shame.

[caroline]

Many evangelicals are like this as well. I can't tell you how many gay people I have known whose parents have completely disowned them because they go against their religion. It's actually very painful to be cast away by your parents. Nobody can argue that disowning a child isn't a harmful thing to do. But they do it, in the name of their religion, and don't see the actual realness of what they do for some
This is one of the very reasons I have a hard time with the "church" and the majority of mainstream religon. It is a strech for me when evaluating religous entities not to consider them all cults. Honestly has not "religon" done more harm to this world than good historically speaking the root cause of many wars, divisions in society and discrimination has all stemmed from religon.

Oh and cwj do you mind sharing who these cults you have been made aware of are.

[cwj]

Hey Caroline,
Yeah I'm debating whether or not I should list the local cults. Would it be slander if I mention them by affiliation, but not their location in the area?
I must tread lightly...

[LazerFlash]

Yeah I'm debating whether or not I should list the local cults. Would it be slander if I mention them by affiliation, but not their location in the area?
I must tread lightly...Hmmmmm... perhaps the judicious use of the words "alleged", "cult-like behavior" and "not fully substantiated" would keep you out of court?

[cwj]

Here are a few I've come across in the area.

-International Church of Christ (not to be confused with other Churches of Christ)
Very active on college campuses. Their leaders stress a very rigid "discipleship" for new members, including who to hang out with and who to separate from. Also believe themselves to be the one and only church (ie leave and you're going to hell). I encountered members when I attended NVCC.

-Word of Faith (aka the "Name it and Claim it Gospel", the "Prosperity Gospel")
A movement rather than a sect. According to them, if you have enough "faith" riches and health are yours. Poverty and sickness are considered the result of a sinful lifestyle and/or lack of true faith.
Originated among the pentecostal/charismatic churches. The Assemblies of God (the oldest and most respected pentecostal church in the world) condemned Word of Faith as heresy.
When I was a pagan/magician, I happened to sit next to a Faith minister on a train. I pointed out how similar his beliefs were to my magical views...he didn't like that.

-Jehovah's Witnesses
Legalistic, exclusive, separatist group claiming to be "the one true church".
Familiar to most people.

-Independent Fundamentalist Baptist (Important: not all are cults!)
Old school fundamentalism. Though not all fit the type, I attended one that had a dress code for daily life (my hair was a bit too long for their liking). Separatists (even from evangelicals). Considers Catholicism a cult.
Again, not all independent fundamentalist baptists are cultic.

If there's any interest I'll list a couple more.

[cwj]

Hmmmmm... perhaps the judicious use of the words "alleged", "cult-like behavior" and "not fully substantiated" would keep you out of court?

Hahaha I hope so!
Though I'm more concerned that this will be my first thread to end up in "The Bad" section of the forum! lol

[cwj]

I should add that the International Church of Christ is probably the most damaging cult I've come across. Non-Christians would likely dismiss them, but they are indeed a threat to seekers.
I did come across this from former members:
http://www.reveal.org/library/activism/srausch-warning.html

When it comes to cults (or anything I say) please don't just take my word for it. If you're interested or concerned about cults, by all means research for yourselves.

[Nanuk]

Me, too. Opiate is a pretty good description. Heroin junkies cannot see the harm the heroin is doing to them and when they do, they simply don't care.

Many evangelicals are like this as well. I can't tell you how many gay people I have known whose parents have completely disowned them because they go against their religion. It's actually very painful to be cast away by your parents. Nobody can argue that disowning a child isn't a harmful thing to do. But they do it, in the name of their religion, and don't see the actual realness of what they do for some reason.



That sounds pretty one-sided to me. And it says nothing about the gay people who walk away from their families because it is more important to them to be able to engage in a particular type of sex act and be validated for doing so. Let's not pretend to it's just "evangelical" families going berserk and ordering their children to leave forever--I suspect that in many instances, it's more a case of "Well if you won't accept my chosen lifestyle, I'm outta here!"

[longleaf]

Religion=Cult

?

[cwj]

Religion=Cult

?

Sorry I probably should have posted this definition of "Cult" at the beginning of the thread:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult

Definitions 6 and 7 are what I'm using to define "cult" in this thread.

[SeanEpperson]

I would question whether those parents were truly loving of their children to start with.
Disowning a child would be a very grave sin in the Christianity I embrace.
Separation from family and friends is a hallmark of a cult. In fact one of the reasons I brought the whole cult thing up is to warn fellow Christians as well as non-Christians about legalistic/exclusivity.

The unfortunate and self-righteous practices of some people who call themselves Christian is a damned (literally) shame.

So those that follow the biblical need to excommunicate are cults?.... Interesting.

[cwj]

So those that follow the biblical need to excommunicate are cults?.... Interesting.

Sorry man I have no idea where you read that...

[SeanEpperson]

Sorry man I have no idea where you read that...

I hate to use Wiki again but....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication

[Carl_kps]

I tried to start my own cult that revolved around me, "Goole's Gate" one summer when I was home from sea. I even got ordained on the internet in the Church of Carl. After a week, I gave up and I think I tried to start a maple syrup of worm farm. I guess I can still marry people.

[cwj]

I hate to use Wiki again but....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication

I disagree with excommunication and it's not a part of my beliefs (I'm non-denominational protestant). Some churches use it, some don't. Some cults use it and some do not.
Views on that topic vary among religious groups
Interesting though.

[Carl_kps]

Does anyone have a list of the "pseudo-christian cults" located near the mountain.

[Carl_kps]

Isn't this a very subjective statement. What seperates your "Christian" churches from "pseudo christian churches". Where in your bible does it say which churches are right or wrong??

I think the difference between Cult and Church in the US is just in taxes. Churches are tax free while Cults are not.

[cwj]

Carl,
No list of cults that I can provide LOL. The few I mentioned above are in the general area. I wont name any more.

In fact I'd rather move on to more positive threads.
Perhaps the discussion of cults helped some people to think.

[PhoenixOrion]

Anyone who is curious to know what cults are should subscribe to Dr. Ergun Caner's podcasts on iTunes. He interviews various cult "leaders" in an attempt to educate people (mainly students) about this topic.

[Wormdoc]

I think the most wonderful movie, "Life of Brian" by Monty Python sorta sums up the whole thing.

[Jenniffer]

Just found out recently that Neil Gaiman is a Scientologist from way back and I'm feeling a little tearful about it all.

[Starbuck]

Noooooo...

Jenn, don't say such things! :(

[Jenniffer]

Noooooo...

Jenn, don't say such things! :(

His papa made a huge stir in the 60s/70s, I reckon. I found an article where a 7 yo Neil was turned out from prep school b/c of the scandal surrounding his parents. He is evidently listed as a huge donor to the org, photos of him at some Scientology compound, and he sent his schools to a notorious Scientology school in England. Once I started reading it, it was like a train wreck, I couldn't look away :(

[cwj]

Yeah that's a shame. It's amazing how many celebrities actually embrace Hubbard's made up sci-fi religion.

One Christmas years ago my dad gave the book "Dianetics" to my mom, thinking it was simply a self-help type book.
He may never live that one down lol

[MountainMoon22]

I have always been profoundly bothered by the term Christian (with the capital C, if you're indoctrinated you know what I mean). That means born again, not Catholic or any of its spin-offs, mainstream, bourgeouis, Eddie Bauer, high on the big JC Christians.

It's often (not always) a method for determining who you hang out with, what you believe, and who you politely "avoid" due their non-Christian lifestyle choices that range from card playing to wine drinking to homosexuality. If you think these people are open minded, pay close attention to what happens to the members of the group who are unmarried and rumored to be having sex, get pregnant, drink a beer, or smoke a cigarette...there is a reason that Ghandi said "I'd be a Christian if I could find one."

More harm is done by the people convinced they're doing right than the people who know they're doing wrong, in my opinion :rolleyes:

[cwj]

I have always been profoundly bothered by the term Christian (with the capital C, if you're indoctrinated you know what I mean). That means born again, not Catholic or any of its spin-offs, mainstream, bourgeouis, Eddie Bauer, high on the big JC Christians.

It's often a method for determining who you hang out with, what you believe, and who you politely "avoid" due their non-Christian lifestyle choices that range from card playing to wine drinking to homosexuality. If you think these people are open minded, pay close attention to what happens to the members of the group who are unmarried and rumored to be having sex, get pregnant, drink a beer, or smoke a cigarette...there is a reason that Ghandi said "I'd be a Christian if I could find one."

More harm is done by the people convinced they're doing right than the people who know they're doing wrong, in my opinion :rolleyes:

Hey AMD,
I'm not sure I understand your entire post, so forgive me if I stray off course :)
Many go by the name christian, but in reality are not. They will drag the very name of Christ through the mud. They'll replace the simple Faith of the New Testament with greed, legalism, power and politics. (See church history for some obvious examples).
I think it's interesting that the strongest words of Jesus in reference to the judgment of God are directed against people who claim (or will claim) to be his followers!

As for me I proudly call myself a born again Christian. I grew up in a non-religious home and was never indoctrinated.
In fact none of my family, none of my friends and none of my acquaintances are Christian.
Yet they are all dear to me and never would I separate from them.
I will, however, not only separate from but condemn publicly any group purporting to be Christian that controls, manipulates and indeed destroys the minds of their followers (the point of this cult thread). I do this only because it's my duty as a simple Christian.
Otherwise I sit with my non-christian friends, have a beer, smoke a pipe and discuss things like any other human being.
They seem to tolerate me pretty well :)

[KemCam2]

Hey AMD,
I'm not sure I understand your entire post, so forgive me if I stray off course :)
Many go by the name christian, but in reality are not. They will drag the very name of Christ through the mud. They'll replace the simple Faith of the New Testament with greed, legalism, power and politics. (See church history for some obvious examples).
I think it's interesting that the strongest words of Jesus in reference to the judgment of God are directed against people who claim (or will claim) to be his followers!

As for me I proudly call myself a born again Christian. I grew up in a non-religious home and was never indoctrinated.
In fact none of my family, none of my friends and none of my acquaintances are Christian.
Yet they are all dear to me and never would I separate from them.
I will, however, not only separate from but condemn publicly any group purporting to be Christian that controls, manipulates and indeed destroys the minds of their followers (the point of this cult thread). I do this only because it's my duty as a simple Christian.
Otherwise I sit with my non-christian friends, have a beer, smoke a pipe and discuss things like any other human being.
They seem to tolerate me pretty well :)

Yes, because a Christian does not judge. It isn't his job to. Only God can. Me, I'm a work in progress, but I know I wont be judged for it by my Church family! :P

[cwj]

KemCam, indeed!
Oh yeah I'll be checking out your church next sunday most likely. Tomorrow I have a date with a Lutheran church :)
I had better find/join a church soon or else list myself as a freelance Christian LOL

[Black Dog]

I am the charismatic leader of the Cult of the Black Dog and am accepting applications for membership if anyone is interested.

[cwj]

I am the charismatic leader of the Cult of the Black Dog and am accepting applications for membership if anyone is interested.
Does membership guarantee free coffee for life?

[chipgallo]

Yeah that's a shame. It's amazing how many celebrities actually embrace Hubbard's made up sci-fi religion.



Wanna be really amazed? Bingle "Jason Beghe" or "Paul Hagis" alongside "Scientology." The WHEN CELEBRITIES ATTACK episodes courtesy of the good old Arpanet. Las Vegas is betting on Travolta to be the next escapee from the cult.

[Black Dog]

Does membership guarantee free coffee for life?
Quite the contrary. Rather than give up all their worldly posessions to the cult, I simply require that members purchase coffee for life.
So far, so good! :D

[STR1KER]

Freelance Christian
Cult of the Black Dog
LOVE IT!!! hahahah

I look at all religions as being the form of a "cult" in their own way. Find a religion that DOESN'T have some kinda cult personality, (I just typed "Cult OF", LOL), at the end of the day... There just happen to be good ones, and bad ones.

Most people instinctively know right from wrong, however it's the WEAK you have to worry about, in respect to the bad cults.

[chipgallo]

Most people instinctively know right from wrong, however it's the WEAK you have to worry about, in respect to the bad cults.

Cults often recruit on college campuses. The research I have seen shows that nearly anyone can be sucked in, just like smart, strong people invested in scam financial schemes.

Who Joins Cults, and Why? (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/265-who-joins-cults-and-why) has a decent discussion on cult recruitment.

[HolyCannoli]

I have a neighbor who, for the first 3 years, talked to me about god every time i saw him.

One day, I had enough and told him that i didn't believe in god and asked that he respect my beliefs as I had his. Since that day, he won't even look at me when I drive by.

So about a year ago, a sweet old lady comes into my store to get a countertop. We start talking and it turns out that her daughter is the wife of my neighbor. She tells me that her daughter (the chosen one) has not talked to her in 18 years because she didn't approve of the man she married after her husband died.

Religion is always corrupted by man because man is corrupt.

[Neophyte Man]

That's a pretty broad-based insult, which is laughable as it comes from a man whose doctrine has inspired failure and suffering on a grand scale everywhere that it has ever been put into practice. I think I am insuled on this myself. I would never quote Marx. I sure don't know why this sec. was added to the S&B sure is open invite to insult another persons way of worship. Which I thought was in the S&B rules not to do. I am still insulted over the vote on table game sec. were Fr. Brian and my Catholic Church got blasted. Religion should stay at home not on the S&B. I personaly don't care what religion anybody is I find it hard enough to stay on my path that I chose. Its a personal thing.

[caroline]

I think I am insuled on this myself. I would never quote Marx. I sure don't know why this sec. was added to the S&B sure is open invite to insult another persons way of worship. Which I thought was in the S&B rules not to do. I am still insulted over the vote on table game sec. were Fr. Brian and my Catholic Church got blasted. Religion should stay at home not on the S&B. I personaly don't care what religion anybody is I find it hard enough to stay on my path that I chose. Its a personal thing.
Neophyte man and Nanuk please understand I did not mean to offend either of you I simply intended to bring another viewpoint to light.

[cwj]

I think I am insuled on this myself. I would never quote Marx. I sure don't know why this sec. was added to the S&B sure is open invite to insult another persons way of worship. Which I thought was in the S&B rules not to do. I am still insulted over the vote on table game sec. were Fr. Brian and my Catholic Church got blasted. Religion should stay at home not on the S&B. I personaly don't care what religion anybody is I find it hard enough to stay on my path that I chose. Its a personal thing.

Religion is most definitely a personal thing. My hope, however, is that people of various faiths and philosophies can post their thoughts here in a comfortable atmosphere.
As personal as my beliefs are, I do enjoy discussing them.

[LFE]

God gets God help us all
And clearly, God wanted Roger Waters to have hot back up singers :thumbsup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnswRNoiDGI&feature=related

[MountainMoon22]

They say never discuss God or politics - in the case of people like Marx, you're discussing both. Religion is a deeply personal thing, what's right for some may not be right for others, a fact on which most denominations disagree. Wars are fought over this topic, and we won't solve it here on the board.

I grew up alternating churches between the Catholic and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists. Neither were cults. Both are convinced they're right. I think it's up to God (or whatever other divine entity you happen to worship) to sort it out.

[Nanuk]

Neophyte man and Nanuk please understand I did not mean to offend either of you I simply intended to bring another viewpoint to light.


I'm rarely offended. Worry not.

[cwj]

They say never discuss God or politics - in the case of people like Marx, you're discussing both. Religion is a deeply personal thing, what's right for some may not be right for others, a fact on which most denominations disagree. Wars are fought over this topic, and we won't solve it here on the board.

I grew up alternating churches between the Catholic and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists. Neither were cults. Both are convinced they're right. I think it's up to God (or whatever other divine entity you happen to worship) to sort it out.

I don't see anything wrong with discussing any topic if it's done in the charitable spirit of acknowledging that not everyone will agree.
So far the Spirituality/Philosophy forum is going quite well, I think.
Though I really wish more folks would join in and start new threads.

[KemCam2]

They say never discuss God or politics - in the case of people like Marx, you're discussing both. Religion is a deeply personal thing, what's right for some may not be right for others, a fact on which most denominations disagree. Wars are fought over this topic, and we won't solve it here on the board.

I grew up alternating churches between the Catholic and the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists. Neither were cults. Both are convinced they're right. I think it's up to God (or whatever other divine entity you happen to worship) to sort it out.


Reminds me of the flag I saw the other day..."Kill um all...Let God sort out the rest."

[Starbuck]

I agree AMD that we will not "solve" the religion issue...indeed, I find the idea quite curious. I am of cwj's opinion, that this is more a forum for everyone to discuss their ideas on spirituality, religion, and philosophy, in an open atmosphere.

I can disagree with the way someone thinks, especially on the topic of religion, but that doesn't mean he/she is wrong...and IMO, as long as posters remain open-minded, this should be good! :)

[Neophyte Man]

Neophyte man and Nanuk please understand I did not mean to offend either of you I simply intended to bring another viewpoint to light. Got ya. Thank You. Your right another viewpoint is always good. As for the rest of ya y'all are right too I just hope it doesn't wonder off. I just some times look at the past and not ahead. Things get heated a lot on certain subjects in this site. If I share my personal thoughts on religion I just don't want it to be used as a tool to hurt me later. I can start over and say hello my name is Neophyte Man and I am a Catholic:) We have mass tonight and I hope it is good because NCIS is on:D my fav. show.

[Neophyte Man]

The Catholic Church is not a cult? Wow fits every definition that I ever heard for a cult.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cult

Not only that, but the church has even created what would now be called Christianity. With all the Pagan festivals, worship of the Dead, graven images of a stake on which a person might have died, etc.

Sorry to step on toes there. Please forgive me. And I rest my case!!!! need I say more???? S&B thank you for making this sec. nothing better than people trashing my Church. Rule number 1 on the so called rules.:thumbsup: S&B S&B S&B wonderful hate site to go on.

[chipgallo]

Dude's "trolling" you man. Pushing your buttons. His reference is so vague it could apply to the scouts or FD. And neither of the cult lists linked on HIS reference page have Catholicism listed.

[KatherineA]

Though I really wish more folks would join in and start new threads.

People aren't starting new threads and only the same handful are participating on this section of the forum because think, like myself, many think this is too personal a topic and too likely to be upsetting or too likely to provide an avenue for another person to push buttons. I personally hate having this forum.

Don't look you say? Well, since I use the new post feature to quickly scan topics I can't help but see the topics posted.

[caroline]

I get where KatA is going... As some of you may know I am an athiest and for some reason that is very controversial. I feel as though when i try to engague on this forum I must limit myself to avoid offending others with my views. The proverbial "between a rock and a hard place" seems to fit the way I feel on one hand I would like to share my views, on the other hand I am not one to want to upset anyone or stir things up so I am torn.

[Wormdoc]

I'll quote Marx: "religon is the opiate of the masses'


Caroline, I agree with you. I don't see this as an insult. I'm no Marx expert by any stretch of the imagination, not at all. But to me, your quote means that folks often use religion to make themselves feel better (which is what an opiate also does)....as in "well my life sucks now but if I follow this particular religious path, I will get my reward in heaven (or similar idyllic place)"...

And, I too believe that a person's spirituality is a very very personal thing. I don't mind discussing religion in a general way, but some folks take it too personally if I don't happen to choose their particular path as my own path. Or worse yet, try to turn me to their 'way'. Some folks just can't understand that there are many paths, not just one.

Posted after Will Robinson thingie saying Caroline had posted.... One thing I do like about living up here is that there are many many folks that choose non-conventional paths such as different forms of paganism (including myself), or are atheists. And I like that. Truly, it seems people are more accepting of this that in other places I've lived.

[caroline]

One thing I do like about living up here is that there are many many folks that choose non-conventional paths such as different forms of paganism (including myself), or are atheists. And I like that. Truly, it seems people are more accepting of this that in other places I've lived.
Me too. I love to hear everyones views and there are things to respect and learn from in everyones different belifs. I just wish their was a way to talk about it with out ruffeling feathers so to speak!

[kemeigen]

I get where KatA is going... As some of you may know I am an athiest and for some reason that is very controversial. I feel as though when i try to engague on this forum I must limit myself to avoid offending others with my views. The proverbial "between a rock and a hard place" seems to fit the way I feel on one hand I would like to share my views, on the other hand I am not one to want to upset anyone or stir things up so I am torn.

I too am an atheist. I usually find that I am considered wrong when I question another's beliefs but it is perfectly ok for someone of faith to question or even belittle my beliefs (not nec. on this board, but just in general). Thus, I rarely engage in religious discussions preferring to keep quiet, rather than be accused of intolerance.

[kkrapf]

People aren't starting new threads and only the same handful are participating on this section of the forum because think, like myself, many think this is too personal a topic and too likely to be upsetting or too likely to provide an avenue for another person to push buttons. I personally hate having this forum.

Don't look you say? Well, since I use the new post feature to quickly scan topics I can't help but see the topics posted.

The same argument can be made for the kids section. There are a handful of people that participate in that section, more or less, and knowing the children/breeding-haters out there, no doubt there are folks who hate that that forum exists.

However, those who do participate ENJOY it. So stop trying to rain on our parade. You have made your opinion known several times. It would be hard to miss it. You may see the topics, but that doesn't mean you have to click on them.

[kkrapf]

I too am an atheist. I usually find that I am considered wrong when I question another's beliefs but it is perfectly ok for someone of faith to question or even belittle my beliefs (not nec. on this board, but just in general). Thus, I rarely engage in religious discussions preferring to keep quiet, rather than be accused of intolerance.

It's a hard line to walk, between stating what we believe and treading on others' beliefs. My sister and I have been struggling with it for a number of years, now. We weren't raised with religion (though my father is a Baptist), and I just fell to Atheism as a result. My sister has been seeking religion for most of her life, though. Some people do. The problem is that because of this she has tended towards those religions that seek followers out, which in her case happened to be a bit more extremist in nature. Having discussions with her about religion was a mine field. But SHE has become more comfortable with the religion she has found and I am more comfortable with the religion she has found and so we're able to discuss it reasonably. I often give her advice, which is the ironic part - an Atheist counseling a Christian on religious matters? But at this point in her life I think that religion is having a very positive effect on her and so I support it and her. She is much, much happier.

(Of course, if it's something that I totally just don't agree with, I just don't say anything. If you can't say anything nice and all that.)

[KatherineA]

The same argument can be made for the kids section. There are a handful of people that participate in that section, more or less, and knowing the children/breeding-haters out there, no doubt there are folks who hate that that forum exists.


However, those who do participate ENJOY it. So stop trying to rain on our parade. You have made your opinion known several times. It would be hard to miss it. You may see the topics, but that doesn't mean you have to click on them.

Kids forum vs. a religious forum are two entirely different animals - apples and oranges anyone?


Raining on your parade?? I haven't made my opinion known on having this forum BUT once when the idea initially came up and in this thread when the question/comment was posted as to only a few people participate. I provided a reason for that - from my point of view. I hardly call that raining - again unless in YOUR opinion I should not participate in this section. Wow. KKrapf I hardly knew yea. Now I guess I do.

Click on them - no I guess I don't HAVE to - but then again I am a masochist and can't help it sometimes.

From now on sweetheart, I'll try to stay out of "your" forum.

[cwj]

Oh no, I go away for a day only to find the Cult thread on "The Ugly"?
I really need to change my philosophy on closing any of my own threads that gets out of hand...
I'm very sorry that this thread ended up outside the Spirituality forum :(
If anyone hates the idea of discussing Spirituality/Philosophy than please just ignore that forum. Please don't ruin it for those of that do.