Helen Thomas Retires Over Remarks

[Stirring_the_Pot]

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/06/07/us/20100608-THOMAS.html

To every president since John F. Kennedy, Helen Thomas, 89, a White House correspondent, was known for posing questions in the kind of tough and provocative manner that could make press secretaries gasp and her colleagues cringe. Ms. Thomas said she would retire, following an uproar over her recent remarks that Jews should “get the hell out of Palestine” and “go home to Poland, Germany and America and everywhere else.”

[longleaf]

I'm not for bashing old people, and for sure this one deserves it, but c'mon, let the old lady be. We all know she done bad, there's no need to point it out.

[Tony]

I see nothing bad, except perhaps for saying it out loud. There are at least two sides to every issue, and the middle east is no exception.

Holy shades of Arizona (from 1947):
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html?
Palestine is a small and very poor country, about the size of your state of Vermont. Its Arab population is only about 1,200,000. Already we have had forced on us, against our will, some 600,000 Zionist Jews. We are threatened with many hundreds of thousands more.

[LazerFlash]

Consider that the very same person you quoted, also promised the Palestinian people that he (and his fellow Arab leaders) would decimate the Jewish immigrants and return Palestine to the Palestinians. They have also continued to refuse to grant any of them citizenship in their own countries. Folks around the world point to the poor conditions in Gaza, but how many have visited the Palestinian ghettos in Egypt, Syria, Jordan or Lebanon?


As to Helen Thomas' comments, I can agree that everyone is entitled to their opinions. Her rebuttal statements notwithstanding, I guess this is how she really feels. (Such vehemence is hard to get around with conciliatory words after the fact.) I do feel bad that her otherwise outstanding career will have as it's final punctuation mark this episode. OTOH, someone with as much savvy and political acumen should have really known better; I guess that means it was time for her to retire.

[Nanuk]

She should have had her Press Corp credentials pulled in 2000 when she quit being a reporter, left ABC, and became a mere columnist/opinion writer. That's not the sort of person who should take up a seat that an actual news-reporting agency could have filled.

[lar]

I do feel bad that her otherwise outstanding career will have as it's final punctuation mark this episode.

That's what I think....

[Chutney Daftcraft]

But here's the deal... This Jew isn't offended. Why are people feigning outrage and shock just because she said something that has been said hundreds, if not thousands of times? This isn't the first time this has been said, and it certainly won't be the last. I actually appreciate her saying it, to be honest. It's a wake-up call to those that think this type of thinking doesn't really exist anymore. It does.

The biggest problem with 'abolishing' anti-Semitic rhetoric (and prejudice/racism) is that we've all been taught that it is wrong to say these things. Not too much focus has been placed on thinking these things, just saying them out loud for others to hear. What that's done is drive this type of thinking into 'the closet', and just because the door is shut doesn't mean that the closet is unoccupied. So many people still think this way, they're just more clever about it.

It's kinda like punishing a child without placing focus on what they did to get punished and teaching them why they are being punished... All that child is going to take from that experience is 'I better not get caught next time'...

[Tony]

The biggest problem with 'abolishing' anti-Semitic rhetoric ...Yes, but to stay on topic, Helen Thomas didn't say anything anti-semitic. Anti-zionist != anti-semitic .

[Chutney Daftcraft]

I took what she said as anti-Semitic.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

Also, we now have 'power-couple' potential:

http://www.therudenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/helen-thomas.jpghttp://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/excellent-mr-burns.gif

[Tony]

I took what she said as anti-Semitic.I suppose anyone can take anything any way they want, but that doesn't make it so. I've seen the video and she clearly doesn't say anything anti-jewish - she doesn't even mention religion. It's all in people's misinterpretations. Of course, the solution to the problems in the middle east are not as easy as thrusting a camera in the face of a 90 year old and asking for an off the cuff opinion of Israel.

I think this is the video that started the ruckus. Note how the titles bring up the holocaust, but she doesn't mention that at all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQcQdWBqt14

[kemeigen]

i like her lipstick

[Nanuk]

Tony, there was nothing "off the cuff" about Helen's opinions. She has been pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel for decades and anyone who has ever paid attention knows this. And she's used her reserved seat in the White House Press Room to advance that agenda and voice her personal opinions for many years.

[WVGeo]

She has been pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel for decades

Yep. And as one gets older one tends not to filter between thought and words as much, and since this is a very anti-Israel administration she was comfortable being more outspoken.

That whole being elsewhere didn't work out well for Jews, particularly during the '30s and 40s. Unfortunately, the rabbi has been buried under serious nastiness that makes it pretty clear that it could still work out badly (caution not for kids): http://rabbilive.com/RabbiLIVE/Home.html
(http://rabbilive.com/RabbiLIVE/Home.html)

[scottwilliams33]

CD

It is wrong to say these things. Saying them is spreading the thoughts to others - and allowing your views to be judged by those who heard it.

However, thinking these thoughts, can never be judged except by you and your Maker. So thinking such thoughts is not actually hurtful to others except yourself - while saying it out loud is wrong because it does hurt others. I guess it is kinda like the tree falling in the woods - does it make a sound if no one is around to hear it? concept.

Lastly what makes this issue worst, is she completely apologized for it. So what is it - You did not believe it then or you do not believe it now? It is absurd! Good Riddance to her!

[Chutney Daftcraft]

"Don't speak about it" is NO WAY to abolish a type of thinking. Educating people on why something is wrong is much more effective than telling them they shouldn't say these things, like they're mere cuss words or something.

[Starbuck]

i like her lipstick

I love you.

[derricksonb]

"Don't speak about it" is NO WAY to abolish a type of thinking. Educating people on why something is wrong is much more effective than telling them they shouldn't say these things, like they're mere cuss words or something.

Who's to say that educating one person based on the beliefs of another makes that way of thinking right? What happened to people being free to have their own thoughts and ideas?

[BigTom]

Who's to say that educating one person based on the beliefs of another makes that way of thinking right? What happened to people being free to have their own thoughts and ideas?

That's exactly what this country doesn't need right now, a bunch of people going around thinking for themselves that's obsurd! We need to be told what's right and wrong. My God man what's next? People might start asking questions even start talking and learning something. It would be chaos.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

Who's to say that educating one person based on the beliefs of another makes that way of thinking right? What happened to people being free to have their own thoughts and ideas?

You're absolutely right. I think child molesters, rapists, and murderers should be free to have their own thoughts, and nobody should EVER tell them the way they are thinking is wrong...

[Nanuk]

You're absolutely right. I think child molesters, rapists, and murderers should be free to have their own thoughts, and nobody should EVER tell them the way they are thinking is wrong...

And gays? You forgot to include gay people.

Of course the caveat is that as soon as one of the above acts on those thoughts, they need to be held accountable.

[derricksonb]

You're absolutely right. I think child molesters, rapists, and murderers should be free to have their own thoughts, and nobody should EVER tell them the way they are thinking is wrong...

There's a difference between having thoughts and acting upon them. Our founding fathers once thought about the establishment of a free country. Those thoughts did not become treasonous acts until they put quill to paper and penned the Declaration of Independence.

[Kensey]

Our founding fathers once thought about the establishment of a free country. Those thoughts did not become treasonous acts until they put quill to paper and penned the Declaration of Independence.

Fortunately for them, their "treason" was successful. (There's also a measure of weight behind Thomas Paine's contention that King George III's actions represented a betrayal of the principles of English government.)

"Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason? Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason." -- Sir John Harington

[scottwilliams33]

I agree with DerricksonB and Nanuk. We do not live in Orwell's 1984 where the Government controls our thoughts (though we know they are trying). We are free to think what we want, and our thoughts are between ourselves and our Makers. It is our actions or words that make a us Racist or a Criminal or a Pervert to society etc, not our thoughts. If that were not true, then my bet is everyone on this board qualifies as either or all of the above. Now you when you meet your Maker, that is when you will be judged on your thoughts.

We are Humans with our own thoughts, not computers to be programed that we like/dislike a Race, Sexual orientation, or Political View.

So back to the subject, when this "Lady" said those things, it was wrong. If she never would have said them, she was not have been a racist because our thoughts are private things. Once she made them public, then she became racist.

[Tony]

Once she made them public, then she became racist. Huh? Her views on Palestine have never been kept secret, and they haven't changed in 50 years afaik. And she's hardly alone - lots of the world - Jews included (http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51571) - believe Israel should get out of Palestine. That doesn't make them racist.

[scottwilliams33]

Good Point on her, Tony. I stand corrected. I guess I was tryng to bring back the subject of this thread from where it was going, but her views on it have been voiced before.

[Kensey]

So back to the subject, when this "Lady" said those things, it was wrong. If she never would have said them, she was not have been a racist because our thoughts are private things. Once she made them public, then she became racist.

Racism is a belief -- you can be racist even if you never do or say anything that shows it. Criminality is a state of being that requires an overt act to enter into.

Saying somebody isn't racist until they say something racist is like saying you're not a thief until you get caught stealing.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

I'm just glad that people with these crappy views and prejudices are doing the same thing Oldsmobile's customer base did - Dying off.

Funny how history keeps inscribing itself in granite, isn't it?

[derricksonb]

Racism is a belief -- you can be racist even if you never do or say anything that shows it. Criminality is a state of being that requires an overt act to enter into.

Saying somebody isn't racist until they say something racist is like saying you're not a thief until you get caught stealing.

Not exactly. One becomes a thief the moment they decide to physically steal an item that does not belong to them. A person can not be labeled racist until he acts or says something based on his private thoughts.

[Kensey]

A person can not be labeled racist until he acts or says something based on his private thoughts.

Being labeled the thing, and being the thing, are two different things -- just like you become a thief the moment you decide to steal something, but you can't be convicted of theft until you actually do it.

[Nanuk]

Huh? Her views on Palestine have never been kept secret, and they haven't changed in 50 years afaik. And she's hardly alone - lots of the world - Jews included (http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=51571) - believe Israel should get out of Palestine. That doesn't make them racist.


You said "Palestine" twice in that paragraph. There is no such place. The so-called "Palestinians" are mostly displaced nomads from Jordan and the Jews have a historic claim on the region that goes back thousands of years.

Just letting you know.

[Kensey]

You said "Palestine" twice in that paragraph. There is no such place. The so-called "Palestinians" are mostly displaced nomads from Jordan and the Jews have a historic claim on the region that goes back thousands of years.

Palestine existed from whenever until 1948. If we're going to talk ancestral claims, what about the Canaanites?

[Nanuk]

Palestine existed from whenever until 1948. If we're going to talk ancestral claims, what about the Canaanites?

Show me a Canaanite and we'll talk. But Jews? Not a problem. And Palestine may have existed on maps, but like most of the middle east, it was not a nation-state at all.Those boundaries were arbitrarily drawn by the other, more civilized world powers and no consideration was given to the nomadic tribes that wandered around in those areas. Most of the so-called "Palestinians" are just such nomads, and most of them were booted out of Jordan and Saudi Arabia so please let's not just blame the Jews for their plight. Israel is the only nation in the region that was willing to allow these transients to settle in Israel, work there, and even vote in Israeli elections. They've not had it better anywhere else, but they're being used as pawns by the likes of the late, unlamented Arafat and other bad guys.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

Show me a Canaanite and we'll talk. But Jews? Not a problem. And Palestine may have existed on maps, but like most of the middle east, it was not a nation-state at all.Those boundaries were arbitrarily drawn by the other, more civilized world powers and no consideration was given to the nomadic tribes that wandered around in those areas. Most of the so-called "Palestinians" are just such nomads, and most of them were booted out of Jordan and Saudi Arabia so please let's not just blame the Jews for their plight. Israel is the only nation in the region that was willing to allow these transients to settle in Israel, work there, and even vote in Israeli elections. They've not had it better anywhere else, but they're being used as pawns by the likes of the late, unlamented Arafat and other bad guys.

:applause: :applause: Now I know why my husband likes you so much. :applause: :applause:

[LazerFlash]

Israel is the only nation in the region that was willing to allow these transients to settle in Israel, work there, and even vote in Israeli elections.They've not had it better anywhere else, but they're being used as pawns by the likes of the late, unlamented Arafat and other bad guys.They even have members of their own in the Israeli parliament. Show me just one elected Palestinian official in any government position in Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran or Syria.

And, the Israeli people have been rewarded with not one, not two, but three intifadas, not to mention countless lesser organized terrorist acts. The general Israeli population would like nothing more than to give the Palestinians currently residing in Israel much more autonomy. But, every time it's been attempted, radical members of their own population (Fatah, Islamic Brigade, Al-Aqsa Martyrs, etc.) have sabotaged the fledgling peace.

[Tony]

I had a feeling this thread wouldn't stay on topic for long. The fact remains - someone said A, it was misinterpreted as B by someone else, then everyone piled on and ended up crucifying an innocent person. Howard Cosell, "Greaseman" Doug Tracht, Rush Limbaugh - she's in good company.

[Nanuk]

Who was innocent? Helen Thomas?!

Put down the crack pipe, Tony. She was a nasty, vile person, even if she was only expressing a viewpoint that mirrors you own on the subject of Israel.

[Stirring_the_Pot]

Here is my take on the situation. Miss Thomas spoke on a subject that is at best "a political minefield" in which a public persona should take care when commenting. Miss Thomas chose to respond to the question possibly off the "cuff", however her comments were fuel for the fire for the political pundits of the world and she got burned. I found her comments to be disgusting and without merit, especially for someone at her age and experience she knew better.

As for whether she should have retired or been fired I leave that to Miss Thomas and her peers. As for myself a public apology on the news channels while having to endure the talking heads tearing her apart would have been justice enough. The choice was hers or perhaps after all the decades of (Queen of Turd Island) attitude it is possible her fellow journalist finally turned on her.. It happens all the time.