Yet another reason to despise the ACLU

[Nanuk]

Only the ACLU would side with foreign criminal invaders against our own law enforcement professionals.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/22/us-border-agent-fatally-shoots-man-near-san-diego/?test=latestnews

SAN DIEGO -- A Border Patrol agent on Tuesday shot and killed a man at the U.S.-Mexico (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/mexico.htm#r_src=ramp) border who threatened to strike another agent with a concrete slab, a spokesman said.
Two men, presumably Mexican, assaulted two Border Patrol agents after crossing the border illegally about one mile west of San Diego's San Ysidro port of entry, Border Patrol spokesman Steven Pitts said.
One of the men climbed the border fence around 7:30 p.m. Tuesday and was about to throw the large slab when an agent fired an unknown number of shots, Pitts said. He was pronounced dead in Mexico.
Tijuana, Mexico, police identified the victim as Jose Alfredo Yanez, 40, and said he was shot at least twice in his body and once in the head.
The other migrant returned safely to Mexico.
One of the Border Patrol agents was kicked in the face and taken to a hospital for injuries that were not life threatening, Pitts said.
Kevin Keenan, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/politics/aclu.htm#r_src=ramp) in San Diego and Imperial counties said the death raises troubling questions, partly because the suspects were fleeing.
"It doesn't meet the most basic humanitarian standards when someone is fleeing and doesn't pose a threat to the safety of others," he said.
Keenan questioned whether firing a gun was a disproportionate use of force "to stop rock throwers."
San Diego police will lead the investigation into the shooting.

[Kensey]

There are some conflicting details.

* One suspect was throwing what is described in everything but the AP report as "rocks and sticks" or rocks and a piece of wood with nails. No mention of a "slab" of concrete. (And I can't imagine a suspect fleeing from police carrying a concrete slab up a fence.)

* It's not clear whether Reyes was the one throwing things at all.

The most detailed report I find is from NBC San Diego (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/ACLU-Calls-for-Probe-in-Border-Shooting-124372389.html).

[Nanuk]

(And I can't imagine a suspect fleeing from police carrying a concrete slab up a fence.)


In many areas along that border wall, the scumbags either stack rocks and chunks of concrete on top of the wall, or else other scumbags on the other side hand such weapons up to them. Throwing rocks, bricks, etc. at our officers is common and considered a sport to many of these cucarachas. It's also considered deadly force and justifies a like response if the officers feel that the threat is imminent. We've capped them before for this. Maybe someday they'll learn.

Our border, our wall, our country. How hard is that to understand? But the ACLU rushing in to take a side--and the side of the criminal--before the facts are all out is the objectionable part.

as to "not clear whether Reyes was the one throwing things..." Of course the Mexicans and the ACLU would like to make that case. But they were not there and the officer who fired the shots was. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until the investigation is formally concluded.

[charliepff]

I think if you criticise the border patrol you should have to do there job for a while. The fact that any given time you can have rocks, boards or malatove coctails thrown at you. Plus the fact that you do not know if they are just trying to get into the country or trying to traffic drugs for a major gang that has as much firepower as our military. MAybe some people should walk in the border patrols shoes.

[derricksonb]

The fact that the suspect had entered the US illegally and attempting to flee from Border Patrol Agents is enough for me to warrant use of deadly force in order to apprehend the suspect. Blow em full of holes and toss the bodies back over the fence.

[Jenniffer]

If you Google "dehumanization rhetoric cockroach" you'll get some interesting reading on how this kind of practice has been used in history, the sort of people who have historically employed those tactics, and the devastating events that unfold in climates where that kind of rhetoric is accepted.

Shooting a guy in the back as he's running away doesn't sound like it meets any sort of code of honorable conduct. Absent evidence that these were mass murderers who would go on to kill again, I can't see any justification for it. I guess we'll see what evidence comes to light as the investigation continues. What happens more often, though, is that we hear nothing more about these cases after the sensational initial headlines.

[derricksonb]

Shooting a guy in the back as he's running away doesn't sound like it meets any sort of code of honorable conduct.

If the suspect was honorable he would not have jumped the border fence or run when confronted by officers. Who initiated the issue and who is really in the wrong here?

[Jenniffer]

If the suspect was honorable he would not have jumped the border fence or run when confronted by officers. Who initiated the issue and who is really in the wrong here?

I'm not claiming the guy is honorable. I'm saying, being dishonorable doesn't justify shooting someone in the back as they're running away from you, if that's what happened.

[derricksonb]

If only those silly criminals would learn to run towards the officers intead of away from them then they wouldn't get shot in the back..... Perhaps this would be easier for the ACLU to accept if the agents used their super powers to run far enough ahead of the illegals that they had enough time to stop, turn around, set themselves and fire directly into los cockroaches mariachi like beating hearts....

[Nanuk]

I'm not claiming the guy is honorable. I'm saying, being dishonorable doesn't justify shooting someone in the back as they're running away from you, if that's what happened.

I realzie that you have no experience with or understanding of this sort of thing so explain that it's quite common for a person who presents an immediate deadly threat to a shooter to perceive, at the last moment, the fact that he is about to be shot and reflexively turn away in an attempt to avoid that with is already happening. That is how many criminals wind up shot "in the back" in cases where they actually are struck in the back. But usually that claim is a spurious one, made by the deceased's family as they try to make the dead cockroach look like an errant choirboy and set the stage for a lawsuit that will make them rich.

[Tony]

Israelis have been shooting rock throwers for years. It's considered appropriate force. But at least they often use rubber bullets. I agree an investigation is warranted.

[Nanuk]

Rubber bullets are issued for crowd control in other countries. No Federal law enforcement agency, Border Patrol or otherwise, is authorized to use or carry them.

[charliepff]

I think we are way to easy with all of our laws. Maybe Jennifer and Tony need to go and patrol with the Border Patrol for a year. When you are in the middle of nowhere and haveno idea what else is going to happen you do what ever you can to make sure you go home to your family. The moral of this story is do not cross into the country ILLEGALLY!!! That would solve the issue completely. As far as rubber bullets, whats the point? How long are we going to keep backing up illegal people breaking our laws? It really disgusts me. You also have the Mexican Military that is corrupt and at least two major gangs (one that is trained to the equivelant of the US military ) traffiking drugs and humans into the U.S. but we still continue to coddle them. Does anyone else agree with me?

[Chutney Daftcraft]

I like the ACLU. I think they're pretty.

[Kensey]

From previous work on a project for CBP I know that the Border Patrol agents down there change cars in a guarded garage on the way to and from work. They do this so that individual agents aren't as easy to follow home and assassinate (it's happened). Sudden death on or off the job is a daily fact of life.

Not to mention that those areas of the country are just hellish to patrol because of climate, weather, terrain and general lack of things we take for granted back here in the world.

The guys who do that job are a dedicated bunch.