Navy SEALS caputure murderer of Americans, now face trial for allegedly punching him.

[Nanuk]

This is the guy who was behind the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater agents--Americans. The SEALS found him and captured him, but now he's crying because they supposedly roughed him up to the tune of a fat lip during the apprehension (an operation in which they presumably could have just as easily killed him) and now the SEALS are the ones facing trial.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html

This could never have happened under any of our past Presidents. Way to stand up for our troops, Obama!

[longleaf]

With all due respect (don't you love when someone starts a sentence this way ?), you gotta love the rhetoric from the wingnut camp....

Please....Obama didn't bust those SEALS, their superiors did.

I think you're jumping the gun a bit here, as I would bet that if needed, Obama will bail them out. Your frustration right now should lie with the US Navy, as the arrest is unconscionable.

[waveydavey]

should have went down like this....

one shot ( or many.. dont care, bullets are cheap)
one kill
scratch name off list
move on to next....

[LFE]

Unfortunate procedural BS...
Clearly the bad guy fell and injured himself.
It will just take a little investigation work to get him to admit to it.

[Nanuk]

Please....Obama didn't bust those SEALS, their superiors did.

He's the guy at the top--the one setting policy. And this is right in line with his trying to put our CIA agents on trial and giving all of the terrorists the same rights that US citizens and guests in our country are entitled to.

In Obamaworld, it's pretty much accepted that our military and intelligence operatives are always worthy sacrifices if it's believed that by vilifying them, it might persuade some America-hater somewhere to develop an admiration for Obama.

Remember now that a key tenet of the Cult of Personality surrounding Obama is that it's all about him. Not America, but him. And we've seen him side with our enemies against our allies and our own forces several times already. This is just another link in that chain.

And you'd better believe that before these charges were brought against our guys, the White House had been consulted. The prosecution is all Obama/Holder.

[longleaf]

I still don't believe that had Obama known about this, and if the facts in the case are TRULY what are being presented here, that our president would have let this occur. I just don't believe it.

Again, HE didn't bust them, their superiors did, and I believe that they did it without consult from the White House.

[Kensey]

This could never have happened under any of our past Presidents. Way to stand up for our troops, Obama!

Except George W. Bush:

The Navy charged four SEALs with abuse in 2004 in connection with detainee treatment.

[Nanuk]

Except George W. Bush:

Kensey, I know that you like to do the "gotcha" thing, but it only works when the comparisons are valid. Have you researched that 2004 case? You might want to look into it. A prisoner who was already in detention died, and there was an attempt at a cover-up. That's a lot different than some scumbag getting a fat lip while being arrested.

That case was about actual misconduct; this one is just Obama trying to show the world that he's different and apart from our bad, evil military and everyone in our government before he got on scene.

[longleaf]

Ruh Roh

Hey Nanuk....





LOL

[Kensey]

Kensey, I know that you like to do the "gotcha" thing, but it only works when the comparisons are valid. Have you researched that 2004 case? You might want to look into it. A prisoner who was already in detention died, and there was an attempt at a cover-up. That's a lot different than some scumbag getting a fat lip while being arrested.

My point is, we only know the allegation right now. If it makes it all the way to a trial and they're convicted, then we can talk about injustice. But so far the system seems to be doing what it's supposed to do -- investigating an allegation of misconduct.

There are inconsistencies in the stories as reported -- was he "punched in the gut" or in the mouth? -- so I doubt this'll make it far, and IMHO based on what was reported, dismissal of charges is exactly what should happen.

[Nanuk]

Sorry, but where I come from, you don't punish the people who do the work you want done, especially if it's a dirty job and you otherwise lack the ability to do it yourself. And in situations like this one, you don't air the dirt in public for the world to see.

[longleaf]

Sorry, but where I come from, you don't punish the people who do the work you want done, especially if it's a dirty job and you otherwise lack the ability to do it yourself. And in situations like this one, you don't air the dirt in public for the world to see.

I agree, things USED to be kept private, and were for the most part, but these days, what with cellphones, digital cameras, the ability to contact millions within a second...things have changed.

[Jeremy]

but these days, what with cellphones, digital cameras, the ability to contact millions within a second...things have changed.

You forgot the internet!!!!!

[Kensey]

Here's what a for-real Army troop with two tours in the sandbox (about to deploy for a third) has to say:

Fox News is running a story regarding some SEALs that has been picked up by a pack of right-wing blogs whose spin is, generally, "Look at how Obama is treating the military! Worse than the terrorists!"

Ummm. . . NO.

In Reality-Land, there are procedures to follow. You take a detainee, you photograph him as soon as possible. You continue to photograph him as you go through the steps of hand-over. There are a number of reasons for this, but one of them is to prevent allegations of detainee abuse.

If the Article 32 hearing says there is enough evidence for court-martial, and if there is a conviction, then that conviction will essentially be punishment for failing to follow these procedures, designed to protect both capturing units and detainees. And I will shake my head and go "Typical Special Operations dumb shit, these cowboys think they are above the rules."

If the Article 32 hearing results in dropped charges, or if the court-martial result in acquittal, then it is back to business as usual, chalk another one up for the good guys.

These policies and procedures exist because we are better than they are, and we are professionals. The Special Operations community is supposed to be a higher degree of professional, not some hopped-up cowboys out there acting like dumb-asses. I understand the temptation to punch a detainee because he won't shut up, but that is not an excuse to give in to it.

On the other hand, I'm disinclined to believe anything that comes out of the mouth of an Iraqi, especially a detainee, so the smart money is on a no-bill by the Article 32 hearing.

Oh, and for the record? Obama doesn't have a thing to do with it. Just sayin'

[Nanuk]

OK, so now because someone who didn't even give his name posted the above comment on some sort of lame blog or discussion forum for nerds (I love all of the posts about medieval warplay), we're supposed to assign instant credibility to whatever it is that he said?

That's kind of reaching, IMHO.

[Kensey]

OK, so now because someone who didn't even give his name posted the above comment on some sort of lame blog or discussion forum for nerds (I love all of the posts about medieval warplay), we're supposed to assign instant credibility to whatever it is that he said?

That's not just some random anonymous commenter -- the link goes to that guy's LiveJournal account. I know someone who knows him personally (not an Internet friend-of-a-friend, a real friendship) and vouched for him being the real deal.

[Tony]

Sorry, but where I come from, you don't punish the people who do the work you want done, especially if it's a dirty job and you otherwise lack the ability to do it yourself. And in situations like this one, you don't air the dirt in public for the world to see.

Translation:
If you want to punch prisoners, and you can't be there to punch them yourself, then you may have a spec ops do it for you. Keep mum afterwards and don't tell anyone.

Are you seriously proposing we legalize remote torture? Like with our game controllers? Two rights to the chin, then a solid kick to the left kidney!

[Nanuk]

A punch in the mouth is hardly torture.

[Tony]

A punch in the mouth is hardly torture.

Alright then. Tell me, at what point would it become torture? If you used brass knuckles? A baseball bat? An iron rod? Or is it a question of quantity? Would two jaw punches be torture? Twenty? Forty?

Or is it the location? Would punches to the groin be okay also? Talk like this enough and we begin to sound like the Bad Guys.

Maybe we can just waterboard them instead?

[Nanuk]

Waterboarding isn't torture, either.

But none of the other things that you are offering as possibilities happened. We're still only talking one alleged smack in the face. And since you've apparently forgotten what this creep did, I'll refresh your memory.
Hint: The crispy bodies hanging there were real Americans.