Abortion (split thread from Ron Paul discussion)

[PhoenixOrion]

Split from this thread.

Why is it always about abortion? What's that about? I don't get it.

Thanks for the clarification. I am familiar with Roe vs. Wade but I do not think it is his intention to take any action toward abortion rights in office I believe he plans to focus on maters directly addressed in the constitution and axe the FED although you have brought up a scary point that if even though it does not appear to me integral to his platform if he did that I would feel way duped!!!!!

Even if he tried, he'd fail. There's no way RvW will be overturned any time soon, if ever.

[caroline]

For me it is just a very important issue to have control over ones body and I find it disturbing the govt would want to control a womans body. Now that being said it is not an end all be all that I will only vote for a pro choice canidate there are many other issues important to me. I too would like to think it would be pretty hard to overturn R vs. W but you never know!!!!!!! I just hate how many comprimises I have to make when voting for a canidate! What appeals to me about Ron Paul is the limiting of govt which to me= staying out of my business in things that don't need to be govt regulated. I also like has concepts of dramatic overhaul of our current financial system as it seems to not really be working right now!

[PhoenixOrion]

For me it is just a very important issue to have control over ones body and I find it disturbing the govt would want to control a womans body.

I was asking more for the opposing side. Seems the right wing voters are all about morality issues anyway but especially abortion. My question is, why is that more important than education or any number of issues effecting children? To me, I'm more worried about what my born children are facing rather than a child that may or may not be conceived.

Further, the Pro-Life crowd specifically has a long history of pushing for Pro-Choice laws to change. Some of them go so far as to push for a limit on insurance covering birth control. Seems counter-productive to me. I mean, if you're against abortion wouldn't you want women to use birth control in an effort to prevent a pregnancy from ever occurring?

[Chutney Daftcraft]

I mean, if you're against abortion wouldn't you want women to use birth control in an effort to prevent a pregnancy from ever occurring?

It's a perfect storm to raise funds for 'the cause'. Wrestling over the womb is a very lucrative venture. For this reason alone it could never actually be made illegal. Talk about a religious recession...

[Starbuck]

Some links to how states are now eroding Roe v. Wade:

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/...-by-state.html

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/video/...n-wade-matters

One of my biggest questions for the right-wing has always been why limited government stops at my bedroom door. How can someone say life begins at conception and then want to cut education and social programs that make sure those same children are cared for and fed and have adequate medical care outside the uterus? Why does it matter who my neighbor wishes to marry?

[Kensey]

One of my biggest questions for the right-wing has always been why limited government stops at my bedroom door.

We'll make a libertarian out of you yet...

[Yossarian]

I am just a little curious about how the pro-choice folks feel about the death penalty. No judgements to be made, just looking for more information.

[Theresa]

One of my biggest questions for the right-wing has always been why limited government stops at my bedroom door. How can someone say life begins at conception and then want to cut education and social programs that make sure those same children are cared for and fed and have adequate medical care outside the uterus?

I've always wondered if the 'life begins at conception' crowd would also extend dependent tax exemptions to women as soon as they can prove they are pregnant.

[caroline]

I am just a little curious about how the pro-choice folks feel about the death penalty. No judgements to be made, just looking for more information.

I am personally pro death penalty. But I do not see any correlation to me being pro-choice.

[KatherineA]

I'm anti-death,but pro-choice, but anti-pro-choice for me should the situation arise (which it won't anymore, so Iam not sure if that makes me a hypocrite or not). I do see some hyprocrisy by saying life in the womb is not so sacred at least up to three months, but life is sacred as far as the death penalty goes. In any case, I believe every woman should have the right to say yes or no to having a child, even after conception. while it wouldn't be my choice to have an abortion and wasn' when I was "with child" in high school, it is a personal and medical decision that should not be off limits for a woman and her family because of a state or fed. legislators religious beliefs.

[PhoenixOrion]

Some links to how states are now eroding Roe v. Wade:

http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/...-by-state.html

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/video/...n-wade-matters

One of my biggest questions for the right-wing has always been why limited government stops at my bedroom door. How can someone say life begins at conception and then want to cut education and social programs that make sure those same children are cared for and fed and have adequate medical care outside the uterus? Why does it matter who my neighbor wishes to marry?

Let's get even more technical. If the right wants limited government, why the push for government controlling people's personal lives? That obviously goes well beyond abortion but for whatever reason, that has been the chosen platform for many-a-politician.

As for your links, I'd think at the most the issue of fetal pain would produce some restrictions on late term abortions and/or require doctors to sedate the fetus prior to the procedure.

The second one pisses me off. We've got states mandating that a woman undergo and be shown the results of an ultrasound prior to having an abortion. This suggests that women take the choice lightly, which couldn't be further from the truth! I am so sick of people with that mentality!

[PhoenixOrion]

I've always wondered if the 'life begins at conception' crowd would also extend dependent tax exemptions to women as soon as they can prove they are pregnant.

I've always heard this argument from the opposite side of the fence; Pro-Life and Pro-Capital Punishment.

I do see some hyprocrisy by saying life in the womb is not so sacred at least up to three months, but life is sacred as far as the death penalty goes.

I suppose if someone is looking at it in terms of the sanctity of human life, that would make sense. I think that applies to both 'sides' too; just on this point it's hypocritical to value one life over the other since both involve human beings. However, when life begins would also apply here.

[kemeigen]

pro life isn't really about the life being sacred, blah, blah blah. it's more about keeping women down.

[KatherineA]

It isn't about keeping women down to me -pro life. It is about what I believe is the sanctity of human life. Which is why I am conflicted about being pro - choice but anti -death penalty. I don't think that there is a "logical" answer for having those contrary positions because they do conflict, at least "morally" in my mind.

[TheChipmunks]

I am personally pro death penalty. But I do not see any correlation to me being pro-choice.

Second that.

pro life isn't really about the life being sacred, blah, blah blah. it's more about keeping women down

And that!

[kkrapf]

I am pro choice because banning abortion puts women at risk, but I very rarely agree with the choice. I do believe it is murder, but I believe that sometimes murder is justified.

[Starbuck]

I am just a little curious about how the pro-choice folks feel about the death penalty. No judgements to be made, just looking for more information.

In my heart of hearts, I think every convicted felon, especially those convicted of crimes severe enough to warrant the death penalty, should be given 30 minutes with the victim's family. And whatever happens, happens.

I am against the death penalty as it currently exists in the US, not because I have any gooey "sanctity of life" feelings, but because:
a -- It does not deter crime like it should
b -- Too many innocent people have been given the death penalty. This includes mentally challenged individuals
c -- It is more expensive to send a convict to death row than it is to house that convict for life

Solve these issues, and I might give up my opposition to the death penalty.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

Out of sight, out of mind. It should be more difficult to end the life of someone who is a living, breathing, knowing, communicating being, to the point they know what their life is and that you are going to end it than it should be to terminate a pregnancy before the life is ever experienced.

How can somebody OK with the death penalty procedure, and the days leading up to it, but not OK with terminating a pregnancy? I don't want to hear a damn word about the woman who goes and gets abortions like I get haircuts. I never want to hear about this bitch again until somebody proves her existence.

[AAT53]

I don't want to hear a damn word about the woman who goes and gets abortions like I get haircuts. I never want to hear about this bitch again until somebody proves her existence.

I've met that "bitch". A girl I went to high school with named Miaya. By the time we were 20 she had had 7 abortions...yep, 7. She would not use bc pills because she said they made her gain weight, she wouldn't use condoms because she didn't like the feel of them and she said that pulling out wouldn't work. She was from vietnam and told us that it wasn't a big deal there. Her parents knew about each abortion (paid for most of them) and they didn't care.

That being said, she wasn't an actual "bitch". She was very nice and loving, but she had a very different feeling/belief about abortions. Her mother had one in her 7th month (while they were visiting family in vietnam) because they decided they were going to extend their vacation for a month and she decided she didn't want to travel that long while pregnant.

To me it was a very sick way of thinking, but to them it was just the way it is. The family there didn't question it or anything and from what I was told they all understood exactly why she did it. I have to say, her parents were wonderful parents and loved the 3 children they had/kept.

Miaya has had 2 children since we were twenty and has had at least 4 more abortions that I know of. She has been in this country for 30 years and she still looks at abortion as just another form of birth control.

While she may not have had them as often as one would get a haircut, she certainly had them quite a few times.

[itsapyr]

I am pro choice about abortion and also pro death penalty.

As someone who did not have children by choice (and no I like them just fine just never wanted my own) I never ever would attack another woman for wanting children like I have been attacked for not wanting them.