Abortion (split thread from Ron Paul discussion)

[AAT53]

I am pro choice about abortion and also pro death penalty.

As someone who did not have children by choice (and no I like them just fine just never wanted my own) I never ever would attack another woman for wanting children like I have been attacked for not wanting them.

That does work both ways. I have a message board that I have been a member of for about 10 years. There are quite a few on there who like to pull the "breeder" card, say that the vast majority of parents should never have had kids because they don't know how to raise them, etc.

When it comes to any issue involving human beings there are always plenty of people on both sides that bitch and complain about the others.

[itsapyr]

That does work both ways. I have a message board that I have been a member of for about 10 years. There are quite a few on there who like to pull the "breeder" card, say that the vast majority of parents should never have had kids because they don't know how to raise them, etc.

When it comes to any issue involving human beings there are always plenty of people on both sides that bitch and complain about the others.

I am just talking personally. I am not a zero population growth proponent except for me personally. I had a woman come up to me that didn't even know me and call me a selfish bitch because I didn't have children. WTH?

[Chutney Daftcraft]

I've met that "bitch". A girl I went to high school with named Miaya. By the time we were 20 she had had 7 abortions...yep, 7. She would not use bc pills because she said they made her gain weight, she wouldn't use condoms because she didn't like the feel of them and she said that pulling out wouldn't work. She was from vietnam and told us that it wasn't a big deal there. Her parents knew about each abortion (paid for most of them) and they didn't care.

That being said, she wasn't an actual "bitch". She was very nice and loving, but she had a very different feeling/belief about abortions. Her mother had one in her 7th month (while they were visiting family in vietnam) because they decided they were going to extend their vacation for a month and she decided she didn't want to travel that long while pregnant.

To me it was a very sick way of thinking, but to them it was just the way it is. The family there didn't question it or anything and from what I was told they all understood exactly why she did it. I have to say, her parents were wonderful parents and loved the 3 children they had/kept.

Miaya has had 2 children since we were twenty and has had at least 4 more abortions that I know of. She has been in this country for 30 years and she still looks at abortion as just another form of birth control.

While she may not have had them as often as one would get a haircut, she certainly had them quite a few times.

Well, that's kinda different. Yeah, I know, that sounds funny to say. She was from a culture where it was no big deal. Her background/beliefs should not affect my sister's body. Interesting that she could afford them, nonetheless. She is also living proof that abortion doesn't really increase the chances of adverse reproduction capabilities. Well, you could say that if a woman from Vietnamese descent was a true representative of all women, I suppose.

[PhoenixOrion]

I've met that "bitch". A girl I went to high school with named Miaya. By the time we were 20 she had had 7 abortions...yep, 7. She would not use bc pills because she said they made her gain weight, she wouldn't use condoms because she didn't like the feel of them and she said that pulling out wouldn't work. She was from vietnam and told us that it wasn't a big deal there. Her parents knew about each abortion (paid for most of them) and they didn't care.

That being said, she wasn't an actual "bitch". She was very nice and loving, but she had a very different feeling/belief about abortions. Her mother had one in her 7th month (while they were visiting family in vietnam) because they decided they were going to extend their vacation for a month and she decided she didn't want to travel that long while pregnant.

To me it was a very sick way of thinking, but to them it was just the way it is. The family there didn't question it or anything and from what I was told they all understood exactly why she did it. I have to say, her parents were wonderful parents and loved the 3 children they had/kept.

Miaya has had 2 children since we were twenty and has had at least 4 more abortions that I know of. She has been in this country for 30 years and she still looks at abortion as just another form of birth control.

While she may not have had them as often as one would get a haircut, she certainly had them quite a few times.

Personally, I do not see any difference in the woman having one abortion and the woman who has seven, ten or twenty abortions. And since I've already started down the path of technicalities, let me throw this one at'cha. Abortion is birth control. Certainly not in the way most people view it but the reality is that it does prevent (live) birth from occurring, which is exactly what birth control is meant to do. You can't even say "traditional" birth control prevents pregnancy because - again - technically, some do not (in how we view pregnancy itself).

[grafxgirl]

I am personally pro death penalty. But I do not see any correlation to me being pro-choice.

I am a conservative that is pro-choice and pro-death penalty also.

[derricksonb]

I am a conservative that is pro-choice and pro-death penalty also.

Same here. I fully believe in a womans right to choose, but once a person has the ability of free choice then he/she should face the full consequences of their actions.

[caroline]

db I hope you are not sayn' people who have abortions should face the death penalty!!!!!!!!!

[grafxgirl]

db I hope you are not sayn' people who have abortions should face the death penalty!!!!!!!!!

No, he's saying that a woman should have the freedom to decide whether or not she wants to bring a new life into this world, but once that new life grows up it has the free choice to go down a good path or a bad path as an adult. If that person decides to go down the bad path then that person should face the consequences for their actions, even if it turns out to be the death penalty.

[PhoenixOrion]

Same here. I fully believe in a womans right to choose, but once a person has the ability of free choice then he/she should face the full consequences of their actions.

No, he's saying that a woman should have the freedom to decide whether or not she wants to bring a new life into this world, but once that new life grows up it has the free choice to go down a good path or a bad path as an adult. If that person decides to go down the bad path then that person should face the consequences for their actions, even if it turns out to be the death penalty.

Certainly not the impression I got from the above images, particularly the first one. I'd be interested to hear DB's thoughts from DB too.

[derricksonb]

PO- The T-shirt is an example of an irony. Now that that the child has escaped the possibility of being aborted he/she is pro-choice.

That being said, I believed I summed up my feelings quite nicely BEFORE the posted images. I support a woman's right to choose, but I also support the death penalty.

[grafxgirl]

Certainly not the impression I got from the above images, particularly the first one. I'd be interested to hear DB's thoughts from DB too.

I figured I had a pretty good grasp on what he was saying since I've known DB for 22 years and been married to him for 11 of those 22 years.

[derricksonb]

i figured i had a pretty good grasp on what he was saying since i've known db for 22 years and been married to him for 11 of those 22 years.

allegedly.........

[Casey]

Just my 2 cents worth. I am pro death penalty but beleave our judicial system needs some much needed overhauling. As a mother of 4 I know if someone where to hurt one of my children I'd want to push the button or throw the switch myself. I am very pro choice and beleave the opperative word in that is choice. If your choice would be to never have an abortion then I fully respect that choice but in return you must respect my choice to have one. It is a completely private matter and should be made by those involved not a bunch of politicians. If it was a mans body we where talking about I bet we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[PhoenixOrion]

PO- The T-shirt is an example of an irony. Now that that the child has escaped the possibility of being aborted he/she is pro-choice.

That being said, I believed I summed up my feelings quite nicely BEFORE the posted images. I support a woman's right to choose, but I also support the death penalty.

Sorry, it was a little confusing.

I figured I had a pretty good grasp on what he was saying since I've known DB for 22 years and been married to him for 11 of those 22 years.

Noted.

[charliepff]

I fully believe in a womans right to choose, but once a person has the ability of free choice then he/she should face the full consequences of their actions.

I agree as long as it is not being used as birth control. Everyone should have there own choice as long as not to abuse the resource. Some people have medical issues and so on. The last time I checked we were the USA because an individual could make a choice for themselves. If everyone is telling everyone else they can not have an abortion or anything else it kind of defeats the purpose of being a free country anymore. I do think for people that abuse it there should be consequences. I am very close to someone who had severe medical issues and went through this procedure. They live with there choice everyday. If she lived in a state that she did not have a choice she may not be alive right now. Just my thoughts.

[Starbuck]

So, help me understand here...abortion should be legal as long as it's not birth control...but individuals should be allowed to choose for themselves? So who defines when abortion is being used "as birth control?" Because if it's anyone but the woman making the choice, you are taking away her ability to choose for herself.

Incidentally, some good news out of Texas today, when the court threw out the mandate to have a sonogram prior to the procedure. This is where the legislation really pisses me off...because obviously, some government official (usually male, but not always) believes I did not think through that decision. Apparently, I just decided while driving to the store, "oh, I think I'll go have an abortion." It is my experience that this typically does not happen...however, even if it did, it's still MY choice as long as it's legal.

[charliepff]

So, help me understand here...abortion should be legal as long as it's not birth control

Beleive it or not there are people who think 4 or 5 abortions a year because they can not afford birth control or are to lazy to use it is a correct use for this. Not really sure how else I can explain this but I can assure you this happens. While I do agree it should be THAT PERSONS CHOICE. It is a little irresponsible when it is use in that way.

[Starbuck]

Ah yes, but here's the thing...while you or I may PERSONALLY feel that this is an irresponsible decision, it is still hers to make. And the important thing is making sure that the choice remains legal.

Charlie, are you in favor of scientific sex education in school, or abstinence only? Do you think it would make a difference in the abortion rate? I've seen statistics that make the case, and I've seen statistics that prove the opposite. But I'm interested in your opinion on the subject.

Interesting news I came across today (I'd link the article but I'm too lazy to go look it up just now). While the percentage of doctors willing to perform abortions is very small, the percentage of younger doctors willing to perform the procedure is increasing.

[cindylu]

I didn't think doctors would perform one abortion after another on the same woman--morally/ethically and health wise not good. And then on opposite side of spectrum there is octo-mom.

Abortion rights (like gun rights) is an emotional hot political topic where people let emotions rule their vote. Pretty soon logic is thrown out the window and emotions rule. One of the reasons politicians like emotional hot topics.

[PhoenixOrion]

I hesitate to respond to this again but the 'irresponsible' comments are a bit much, especially if one agrees it should be a legal right. I don't understand why it matters so much to people who are not personally involved.