DNA Test on our New Dog

[chipgallo]

Last December we adopted a dog from the local shelter. They guessed that he was a shepherd/chow mix. I wanted to understand his breed makeup in order to pick the appropriate training, vet care, etc. so I had a DNA test performed (download results here).

For those who don't want to get the PDF report, here is a high level summary:

Basset Hound/Leonberger Cross on one side
Chow Chow Mix other side

It seems to me that somebody was trying to create a new breed here. This dog ended up with a specific temperament and body style. His parents are not inexpensive animals to own so the breeder had access to some resources. The Leonberger, a $1800 dog today, appears in the parents, grandparents and great grandparents (unless I am misreading the chart).

That said, he or she tossed two of the offspring puppies over the fence at the AWS. It could have been due to their size and appetite or other costs of ownership. Damien appears to have been socialized and received a bit of basic training or else he is just naturally well mannered.

Do any of the dog folks on S&B know who might have done this? I am interested in seeing the parents and would love to see a Leonberger up close.

TIA,
Chip

[KatherineA]

Maybe the expensive dog got loose or otherwise got pregnant accidentally and the owner didn't know what he had? In any case, it sounds like a really interesting dog.

[Tony]

I'm curious as to how long a DNA test takes and what it costs. Also, are these as comprehensive as what we see on CSI (that only takes them an hour or two)?

[chipgallo]

It takes around 2 weeks and cost $60 from Amazon (price is $55 today). I have not seen a report on human DNA so I can't answer if it looks like CSI results. It may look like what you see on other kinds of breeding stock (horses, cows). One of the cost determiners between different brands of dog DNA tests is # breeds in the database. The mixed breed Wisdom Panel has 190 breeds to match against. Ones used by pro breeders have more and give greater detail in the reports.

http://amzn.com/B004GFN2ZA

[chipgallo]

Maybe the expensive dog got loose or otherwise got pregnant accidentally and the owner didn't know what he had? In any case, it sounds like a really interesting dog.

I think you may be right on. The chow chow side doesn't seem to add desired characteristics that I have noticed in Damien. I want to interact with a pure Leonberger for comparison.

[LFE]

pure Leonberger

Talking to area vets might be in order.
- As an expensive breed, the number of females not fixed should be somewhat limited.

[Tony]

Interesting, though I'm having trouble believing the ad copy about customizing training, dog food, etc. by lineage. Judged by the 1-star reviews it looks like the test needs some work.

This product is a complete rip off. The only reason I gave even one star is because I had to show some rating. Great marketing materials but there cannot be any science involved whatsoever. I suspect its college kids throwing darts at a poster of dogs. I adopted a dog two years ago. She is about 65 pounds and has a split face black\white. We couldn't decide if she was a border collie, which she looked like or a Great Pyrenees, which she acted like. I finally sprang for the $79 to find out. Our results came back yesterday and said she was a dachshund with a trace of bull terrier. A 65 lb dachshund that is black and white. I only wish I could post a picture of her on this review so that readers could see how ridiculous these results were. Your $79 will be better spent lighting the fireplace.

[danid512]

Take your results with a grain of salt. Doggie DNA testing has not been around long enough to warrant overly accurate results. We've had a few clients of ours do this with their dogs and have had some interesting results (I manage a few specialty vet practices in va). It sparked our interest enough to order about 10 tests and do them on our own personal dogs. 9 of the 10 dogs tested were either purebred or mixed with both parents breeds being known. We did keep in mind that purebred dogs are a compilation of numerous other breeds through the centuries. While results weren't totally in left field, they were not accurate either.

Example. I have a purebred rhodesian ridgeback. Breed history tells me that breeds such as Dane, mastiff and greyhound are all a part of ridgeback genetics. My breed profile came back as half greyhound and, 1/4 ridgeback and 1/4 Dalmatian. Haha.

My other dog is a mutt. Her mother was purebred Doberman. Father unknown but she is very "hound" in many ways. Hers came back as 1/4 Bassett, 1/4 mastiff, 1/4 lab and the rest was a split between dOberman, American foxhound and corgi.

We had similar results on all of the dogs teste with the exception of a greyhound that came back 100%

I think that in ten years, this will be a helpful test. Right now, it's a loose interpretation. Technically the test on my ridgeback was close. If you consider the breeds used to originally make his breed. But not advanced to tell that he was a ridgeback instead of a mix of other breeds.

Just something to think about. As far as training and nutrition, a dogs personality itself will be enough to determine what methods will work best. A well balanced diet recommended by your veterinarian will be adequate for most dogs without medical or food sensitivity. Otherwise you could consider a consultation with a board certified nutritionist of there are concerns.

Sorry for any typos. Not easy on the phone!

[chipgallo]

I found the test to be immediately useful and the traits of the apparently dominant breeds appropriate for our pup.

One thing to keep in mind is that the test panel and method are continually updated and improved upon. Tony's negative review from August 2010 may have been overcome by events and improvements. The company literature notes issues with very mixed breed animals as well. Danid512 doesn't name the test vendor and I am wondering if sample contamination could be a cause of some unexpected results.

The vast resources of the Mars candy food company are behind this decade-long pet DNA test process development. You can bet your Snickers bar that if you are not satisfied, they will send out another test kit at no additional charge. This happened to me.

For more on the patent infringement issues (maybe the vets cited above were using cheap imitation test kits?), see
http://www.wisdompanel.com/assets/1/...ss_Release.pdf

[chipgallo]

Just something to think about. As far as training and nutrition, a dogs personality itself will be enough to determine what methods will work best. A well balanced diet recommended by your veterinarian will be adequate for most dogs without medical or food sensitivity. Otherwise you could consider a consultation with a board certified nutritionist of there are concerns.

Actually, nutrition wasn't something I had gotten the DNA test to deal with and I agree about observation of the animal. I like to know about breed background such as the Chow Chow influence. For medical, there is guidance for the vet based on genetics. Keep in mind that the shelter told us we had a Shepherd/Chow mix and that turned out to be incorrect and possibly misleading.

Considering the "life cycle" costs of this animal, why not get as much info as you can?

[LazerFlash]

While results weren't totally in left field, they were not accurate either.

Interestingly enough, my mother has a friend who breeds cocker spaniels. Last year, one of the clubs she belongs to sent off about two dozen samples to one of the more highly rated DNA labs (I think they paid around $150 per dog). Anyway, the results caused a lot of discussion. Several dogs, including four that have grand champion lineages going back decades, had one parent line completely misidentified. I don't remember the complete breakdown, but the general consensus was that at this stage in their evolution, DNA Dog Testing is more a party trick than an accurate and useful tool. OTOH, my step-son and his wife had their dog - a bully breed mix - tested and as far as they could tell, the results seemed to match his physical and temperamental traits.

[chipgallo]

I don't remember the complete breakdown, but the general consensus was that at this stage in their evolution, DNA Dog Testing is more a party trick than an accurate and useful tool. OTOH, my step-son and his wife had their dog - a bully breed mix - tested and as far as they could tell, the results seemed to match his physical and temperamental traits.

I'm skeptical but not as much as Tony. If the results don't match observed reality, out they go. But I have to wonder if some of these so-called "pure bred" dogs were ever really that, and now people are trying to kill the messenger (meaning DNA technology). Maybe we need to do our own "Doggie DNA" reality show with kennel confrontations and tearful confessions. Mars could be a sponsor

[cindylu]

well, how about a photo??

[chipgallo]

Damien at 65 lbs or so, today.

[KatherineA]

He is really beautiful !

[shadowplay]

I kind of see some boxer in that dog.

[chipgallo]

Daughter Julia picked him out of several dogs at the Petco/AWS one Saturday. His brother was there too and we did a quick temperament test of each. They were too old to do the full test (generally 42-49 days old is better) but I held them off the ground, handled (carefully) their paws and looked at teeth, tried to startle them with a loud sound (difficult in the noisy room) and rolled them on their backs briefly. Damien was stable and observant. The other dog was brittle in attitude and did not seem to care for any part of the test, which is ok but differentiates when you have to choose. We decided individually and compared notes with wife and daughter agreeing on Damien.

[Note that the puppy test I linked to is a more advanced version of what I did with Damien. Out of the two dogs, we needed to select the one who would integrate more easily into the existing pack.]

[chipgallo]

I kind of see some boxer in that dog.

My niece had a boxer. Damien has more of a bubble butt but I see what you mean in the face.

[MoeMoe]

He is beautiful...you both lucked out....how old was he when you got him....looks like he will be a good size....congrats. Oh and thanks for that test link....very interesting, we picked our one lab , who was the BEST dog ever, cause she was the lumpy, mellow one, sleeping in the back under a table...lol worked out well for us at the time...

[chipgallo]

how old was he when you got him.

6 months old this past December. He is a handsome boy and it is hard to understand why someone dumped him over the fence at the AWS.