Inverter Generator

[cindylu]

Anyone have experience with an inverter generator?? Been looking and I really don't want to deal with a gas driven generator and I've been looking at what appliances I want to run and thought an inverter generator would be ideal. Any thoughts ??

[Tony]

What a fascinating technology. Inverters have been around for years, and Generators at least as long, but this is the first I've heard of an "inverter generator". From what reading I've just done, these are similar to the gas generators in electric cars. They only come on and generate what is needed to charge their batteries.

However, that would seem to be a problem when using one during a power outage. Probably the first thing you would hook to it would be the refrigerator, which would take the maximum load, thus the thing would run like any other gasoline Generator. Now maybe if you had the discipline to not hook up high power items like the fridge or a/c, they might excel. But then they would be little more than glorified UPS's. If you only want to run a fan, why not just hook an inverter to your car battery?

Also, I suppose keeping your own power on during an outage can only keep you online for so long. Eventually Frontier/Comcast's batteries will drain and they will cut off even if you have power.

(pdf) http://namgnewsletter.com/DY/pdf_pla...Generators.pdf

[cindylu]

Just looking for an alternative to gas-driven generator. The batteries are getting better and like one newsletter cited you could use such a generator in the summer to run your fridge for a couple hours then switch it to the water pump. In the winter I'd use it to plug in electric heater. Wouldn't worry so much about the fridge in winter. Could also switch it to run the microwave.

[ministerswife]

Whatever you decide to get, if you decide to get one, chain it down. I say this because despite the weight of a decent size generator (which you think acts as a detractor to thieves) someone stole my Cummins (big boy, 5000) a few years back, and the price of replacement is cost prohibitive (at least for me). The inverter has good points, but like they say, so does the classic, at least at present; and it depends on your need which way to go.

[c_and_j]

you have 2 look into the watts of it like your frig takes 1800 watts to kick on every times it turns the cooling on as for a microwave if its 3500 watts it uses 3500 watts the whole time you use it

[LFE]

Propane ones are very efficient and can be hooked up so everything switches over automagically :-)
Things like water pumps take 2 circuits so if you buy something like a 8kW you now only have 6 free circuits to work with.

http://www.generac.com/Residential/G...ardian_Series/

[Tony]

Just looking for an alternative to gas-driven generator.

This ain't it then, because these are gas generators. But assuming you could find one that took regular relatively cheap car batteries - assuming they would have to be replaced every few years - I would prefer one to a gas generator without batteries, just for the cleaner power and quieter operation.

Not sure how easy it would be to switch from the fridge to the water pump. Kitchen appliances could be powered with a long extension cord (and an open door/window). But most water pumps are wired directly into your house's 220V service, requiring a special switchbox and an electrician to install it. And I don't believe a small generator could heat your water, nor run a very large electric space heater for long.

[LFE]

High efficiency water heaters (propane) only require a single outlet to run an exhaust fan....

[Tony]

High efficiency water heaters (propane) only require a single outlet to run an exhaust fan....

No, realistically they also require piped in propane. i.e., I doubt a propane water heater is something someone would want to install when they depend on trucked-in gas. But who knows.

I know propane heat is a very realistic alternative to relying on electric heat all winter.

[Steveo]

If one was to propane their water heater then they can also propane a heat pump, stove, all of which can run off of a 120 volt 115 amp ckt. Also if your going to get a propane water heater then might as well make the jump to tankless waterheater at that, in which case same load calc. is applied.
An electric water heater takes 220 volt 30 amp to run that is conventional power, most generators at around 5 kw can do those. Remember that the 5 kw is at 120 volts. So at 220 volts your output is 22 amps. If a breaker is 30 amps by code you can only be 80% of that so really your water heater takes no more than 24 amps.

LFE if your going to buy a stand alone Generator make it worthwhile, if I can get a portable in 8kw rating why would I buy a stand alone, I put in 17kw's all the time, of course natural gas takes 1kw away due to generator output due to fuel source

[cindylu]

This ain't it then, because these are gas generators. But assuming you could find one that took regular relatively cheap car batteries - assuming they would have to be replaced every few years - I would prefer one to a gas generator without batteries, just for the cleaner power and quieter operation.

Not sure how easy it would be to switch from the fridge to the water pump. Kitchen appliances could be powered with a long extension cord (and an open door/window). But most water pumps are wired directly into your house's 220V service, requiring a special switchbox and an electrician to install it. And I don't believe a small generator could heat your water, nor run a very large electric space heater for long.

I'm looking for something that could run the fridge for an hour or two then plug in a microwave. I would only use this setup when the power was down. I'm trying to stay away from anything gas driven.

[Neal80]

I have a 2000w Champion Power inverter generator (from Costco) & it does everything I ask of it. Refrigerator & electronics. I usually use the grill when the power is out. It would easily run a microwave.
It does not have wheels which is okay for me, but my wife would have issue taking it out. You can get a great deal on a regular type of generator from Harbor Freight in Gaithersburg if you pass through that way. If you are not running sensitive electronics, you may want to save some $ and invest in a larger regular generator for the same price.

http://www.championpowerequipment.com/generators/73531i/

[Tony]

I'm trying to stay away from anything gas driven.

I get that, but I can't imagine what options that leaves. Solar? Wind? Geothermal? It seems to me the problems inherent in all the other options rule them out.

[androsyn]

I believe you have a misunderstanding as to what an inverter generator is, basically all an inverter generator is, is a standard gas/diesel/propane/natural gas/etc type engine hooked up to a generator that generates DC (12v/24v or so I'd guess) power and then uses a switched mode power supply to convert it to AC mains type power 120/240V. The advantage of an inverter generator are electric quality as the frequency of the generated power tends to stay at 60Hz, whereas my crappy Husky non-inverter generator for example tends to float between 61-62Hz and makes for very unhappy computer equipment. Now what it sounds like what you are actually wanting is just simply an "inverter" to run some things off of from battery backup(that is charged from AC mains when power is on I assume). Basically what you'd need in that case is a large bank of deep cycle batteries and an approriately sized inverter. This tends to be what a lot of people who run off of solar/wind power do when the sun/wind isn't blowing.

[Tony]

I'd like to ask you guys that actually use portable generators a few questions.

1. How do you distribute the power? Am I right this requires leaving a door or window open and running long extension cords?
2. What exactly happens to a computer with a regular generator? Doesn't my UPS level the power?
3. How do you keep the gasoline fresh? At the end of winter I siphon what I can out of my snow blower and put it in a car, then run the blower until it runs dry. Next year I'll buy fresh gas for it, and add Sta-bil to it. But how do you manage an all-year device?

[LFE]

I have a 8kW (it powers everything I require) not so portable propane one that starts itself once a week to make sure everything works when really required. Its hooked up to a cut over box in the basement by the electric panel and everything happens automagically :-)

Maintanance is like any other small engine. Change oil, clean air filter, check plugs etc. All the stuff I have hooked up to it seem to work fine.

[androsyn]

I'd like to ask you guys that actually use portable generators a few questions.

1. How do you distribute the power? Am I right this requires leaving a door or window open and running long extension cords?
2. What exactly happens to a computer with a regular generator? Doesn't my UPS level the power?
3. How do you keep the gasoline fresh? At the end of winter I siphon what I can out of my snow blower and put it in a car, then run the blower until it runs dry. Next year I'll buy fresh gas for it, and add Sta-bil to it. But how do you manage an all-year device?

1. I'm currently doing the heavy duty power cords for my portable generator(its a pain), but I do plan on maybe doing some sort of distribution box that is a bit more permanent. It's still a pain the haul the generator out though(especially when the power comes back on 30 minutes later or something!)
2. Well my computers seem okay on the generator, amusingly though my cheap cyberpower UPS flips out over it(the manual warns as much about this at least).
3. I just dump Sta-bil in the gasoline..generator started up on the second crank the other day Should also keep track of the number of hours the generator runs so you know when to change the oil, filters etc.

[Steveo]

I havea 13kw portable, I use the 14-30R on the generator and use a 6-3 piece of S.O. cable to back feed panel in garage which is a sub panel to the main panel in the basement. I hardwired the cord into sub panel so I can use a breaker in there. I utilize the sub panel feed to the main panel as my back fed power source, I manually turn my breakers on and off. I havea buzzer on the utility side of the main breaker with inline fuses and a switch so it will ring when power comes on, but Ican switch it off during regular power.
I am saving up for a 21kw Generac so that EVERYTHING in my house will work when power goes off.

[cindylu]

I believe you have a misunderstanding as to what an inverter generator is, basically all an inverter generator is, is a standard gas/diesel/propane/natural gas/etc type engine hooked up to a generator that generates DC (12v/24v or so I'd guess) power and then uses a switched mode power supply to convert it to AC mains type power 120/240V. The advantage of an inverter generator are electric quality as the frequency of the generated power tends to stay at 60Hz, whereas my crappy Husky non-inverter generator for example tends to float between 61-62Hz and makes for very unhappy computer equipment. Now what it sounds like what you are actually wanting is just simply an "inverter" to run some things off of from battery backup(that is charged from AC mains when power is on I assume). Basically what you'd need in that case is a large bank of deep cycle batteries and an approriately sized inverter. This tends to be what a lot of people who run off of solar/wind power do when the sun/wind isn't blowing.

Yep, you are absolutely correct. But, thanks to all the responses I now have a clearer idea. I looked at the link that Neal80 posted and that's got my attention. My issue is I'm going to have to figure out how to store something like this so that when I do need to use it, it'll be at arms reach when I need it.

[Tony]

Ya, secure storage is a real factor, especially since you can't run these things indoors, and the whole neighborhood knows when you have one running!

Hopefully these recent outages are just a fluke, and I can forget fantasies about whole-house generators. We're not totally addicted to electricity, and even that last 12 hour outage didn't even melt a single ice cube.