War on the middle class

[Chutney Daftcraft]

There are many in the middle class that are still doing well. What the occupy has exposed is a bunch of cry baby losers that want success handed to them with out any risk or effort of their own. They envision a wonderful world where earned success is punished and mediocrity is rewarded.

Yup, they all just want something handed to them with no effort.

[ministerswife]

People should be allowed to go to college and get a degree in anything they want just don't expect others to pay for it and don't whine when you can't get a job in that feild. Take responsibility for the choices you make! If you're stupid enough to get yourself in debt for some useless degree then pay back that debt yourself. If I make stupid decisions in my business should others be forced to not just bail me out but pay me a handsome salary for my own ignorant actions? Of course not!

That's a point made, and like so many others in my era, I paid for my own education and came out without being in debt. It's harder and can take longer (the need to go back to work to get the money, then back to college or work and go to college at the same time to use that money to pay yourself for your education). In that era higher education cost, but the cost was at least affordable (one major reason being wages were more compatible with the cost of living) and the curricula offered multiple categories for degrees in either arts or sciences. Both areas of appreciation and value. IMHO, we need to look into the reason higher education is becoming so much more expensive each year, to the point of being cost prohibitive. I don’t see where that is due to students owing loans, whether it’s for a degree in the arts or sciences. It certainly doesn’t jive with degrees in other than the sciences being without value to humanity.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

OK I'll play. So in your opinion then how is adding more tax (on top of the 36% of all taxes paid by the so called 1%) going to help the economy

It's proven that tax increases spur economic growth. Thanks to this Reuters image, we can see how Reagan grew the economy by <gasp> increasing taxes.

[derricksonb]

I'm not saying we don't need doctors, scientists, engineers, etc., --I have a degree in science myself, and I know their value. What I mean, and evidently despite my efforts to make it clear, I failed (people in science do that now and then) is that we need both, and that arts, etc. are of equal value if we are to have a habitable balance for humans instead of robots in this world.

I fully understand that in an educated society we need both the arts and the sciences, but if you are a recent college grad with an Masters degree in Greek Philosophy and a $100K+ student loan then don't complain, bitch or whine when you find yourself unable to secure gainful employment and are left to either A) admit that YOU made a bad life decision or B) spend your days standing on the sidewalks of some modern day Athens philosphising to your more successful peers about politics, life, love and generosity as they ignore your ramblings and swiftly pass by on the way to their offices as if you were any other homeless panhandling whack-job......

....but I suppose the current administration has set the precedence that it's acceptable to constantly and consistently blame others instead of taking responsibility for your own poorly advised actions.

[Chutney Daftcraft]

You wanna blame someone for this employment attitude that you say you think is entitlement?

Blame our Grandparents. Blame our parents. Blame our teachers.

THEY are the people who told us that everything would be OK if we went to college. Did you forget, or did you come from a Union family?

[derricksonb]

It's proven that tax increases spur economic growth. Thanks to this Reuters image, we can see how Reagan grew the economy by <gasp> increasing taxes.

Cute picture, but it doesn't exactly tell the whole story about how Reagan spurred economic growth after the disasterous, yet slightly better than the current, Carter years. After taking office he initiated a tax cut on income for the wealthy which spurred job growth and an increase in GDP which yielded greater tax revenues from a stronger middle class. In turn he raised capitol gains taxes to 28%. These policies helped lower the rates of inflation from 10% in 1980 to 4% as well as lowered the unemployment numbers from 7% under Carter to 5.4% when he left office in 1988. With more Americans working he was able to reduce taxes on the middle class, but this discussion has little to do with policies of past administration and more to do with those of the current.

[derricksonb]

You wanna blame someone for this employment attitude that you say you think is entitlement?

Blame our Grandparents. Blame our parents. Blame our teachers.

THEY are the people who told us that everything would be OK if we went to college. Did you forget, or did you come from a Union family?

Actually my maternal Grandfather was a union sheetmetal worker for his entire post military career. In addition the majority of his children and their spouses have been members of various unions throughout their careers. In fact both sides of my family are a complex mix of white collared engineers, accountants and executives along with various blue-collar and self-employed tradesmen all of whom have been successful in their careers. So even though I had the college crowd in one ear telling me of the long term advantages provided through higher education I also had the other side explaining how a college education would have helped them be more successful and given them and advantage in their chosen careers or helped them to run their businesses more successfully. SO, I fail to see how coming from a "Union Family" is any different than coming from a "corporate family", "military family" or a "welfare family" when the importance of an education is being questioned and the advantages of earning a degree in a REAL field of study are clearly identified. Not everyone needs to have a doctorate or a masters degree in engineering, physics, chemistry or medicine to be wildly successful in this country. I once asked a former Assistant Manager at Hechinger, who had a Bachelors of Fine Arts with a minor in Business Admin, why he chose the career path he did instead pursuing one related to his degree to which he replied, "The degree simply reflects my passion and it's a tool that I used to open the door for my career. There is more job stability in retail, especially home improvement, than there is in the arts and there are two things to back that up: 1) People always need hot water heaters and 2) People love to build decks."

So why exactly do you suggest blaming grandprents, parents, teachers or others who have explained the benefits of a college education instead of placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of those who pursued a BS degree in a go-nowhere-field and demand to have the job they want in their chosen career field instead of thinking outside of the box and using that degree as a conduit to find a job in another field until a position becomes available doing what he or she wants? Yes- the world needs doctors, engineers, chemists, physicists and there's even a need for the artsy-fartsy crowd, but the world also needs ditch-diggers, plumbers, electricians and someone to ask me if I'd like fries with my order.

[LFE]

If you can't afford it, don't buy it.

[grafxgirl]

I think the world needs a people who can perform a variety of jobs. I have my Bachelor of Fine Arts degree. My concentration as a chosen career was graphic design. I did that for many years, but lost my job nearly 5 years ago. I couldn't find another one in my field unless I already had a secret clearance, which I didn't, because the only graphic design jobs in this area were government related. I most likely would've been very successful in finding another graphic design job if I chose to live somewhere like NY or CA where "the arts" is very popular. I ended up going back to school and switching careers to teaching. I am getting ready to graduate with my Masters in Elementary Education, but currently teach preschool. I have two different degree backgrounds: one is the artsy fartsy as BD puts it and the other is something that this country needs more of. My ultimate goal would be to get a Doctoral Degree in Education so I can help design curriculum and instruction for classrooms, learn new concepts for education administration, and learn new teaching theories to help provide our kids with a proper education. I was also told by several school districts that my art and computer background is highly needed because interweaving my art background into my classroom will help students to develop critical thinking skills, strengthen their problem-solving skills, develop cognitive and creative skills (teach them to think outside of the box) and can help a wider variety of students who possess different learning types (visual learners, kinesthetic learners, auditory learners, etc.) Art can also be very effective in teaching special education and gifted students. With that said BD has told me my former career as a graphic designer wasn't a "real job". He also tells me right now that my current job as a preschool teacher isn't a "real job". But that's okay because BD is an engineer and I pick on him too. As Sheldon Cooper once said "Engineering, where the noble semi-skilled laborers execute the vision of those who think and dream. Hello Oompa Loompas of science!"

[derricksonb]

With that said BD has told me my former career as a graphic designer wasn't a "real job". He also tells me right now that my current job as a preschool teacher isn't a "real job". But that's okay because BD is an engineer and I pick on him too. As Sheldon Cooper once said "Engineering, where the noble semi-skilled laborers execute the vision of those who think and dream. Hello Oompa Loompas of science!"

Touche and well played. However, graphic design is a "real" career and in popular demand in certain locations, unfortunately ours is not one of those at the moment. I always respected your choice in degree and your chosen career path even though at times I referred to it as "drawing stick figures," but I definitely support your new career path as the world will always need teachers and one with your specific background and work experience can only hope to better your future students knowledge of multiple areas. Although I may in the future mention that "Those who can; DO, and those who cannot; TEACH, while at the same time those who cannot teach drive the children of those who can to the places where those who cannot teach."

[Chutney Daftcraft]

I really wish there would be an actual war on the middle class. Time to take those chronic complainers out, for real. Always whining about how they want government to facilitate this life they've become accustomed to. It's enough to make me want to vote straight Republican, so they can finally just eliminate the middle class altogether.

[CMountz]

The decline in the middle class has been going on for over 35 years. This is a trend reflected less in individual presidential policies and more in the greed/retention of wealth of the higher classes. The trickle down effect has been proven, especially in the past decade, to not be effective as we languish at 8+% unemployment with historically low tax rates. The economy always works in cycles so it is easy to point to a time period and say "lowering taxes worked"

Technically, fiscal policy dictates when an economy is growing too fast, taxes should be raised to slow growth. And of course lowered to spur growth. But that isn't happening now. Because the wealthy are holding on to their money.

This issue goes beyond Obama. It is a fundamental cultural issue in our society now.

And I would argue, the top 1% feel they have entitlements today more so than any person on welfare.

[Riverwoman]

The trickle down effect has been proven, especially in the past decade, to not be effective

Unless, of course, you are in China or India. Most of the jobs created by trickle down are outsourced to other countries.

[cindylu]

Unless, of course, you are in China or India. Most of the jobs created by trickle down are outsourced to other countries.

And these countries are increasing their prices because they see how cheaply they've been bought!

[derricksonb]

And these countries are increasing their prices because they see how cheaply they've been bought!

And when those countries increase the costs of their wages who pays the cost?

Folks Obamas War on the Middle Class took front and center stage on Monday when he dangled the Bush Era Tax Cuts in front of Congress and stated that if he didn't get his tax hike for those making over $250k that he would not sign the extension for those making less than $250k. Personally I don't like being used as a pawn in his game to wage war to punish those who are successful in order to reward the bottom feeders of society.

[LFE]

And since when was the general public ever not treated like pawns in chess?

1. 7:33
   Black Sabbath - War Pigs (Live in Paris 1970)