So HealthCare Reform was ok'd by the Surpreme Court. But how long will it last?

[Mountain_Nomad]

The devil is in the details and this is really not reform.

Everybody wants some type of reform when it comes to Healthcare, but the changes Obama and the Democrats have put in place seem to be making a negative change if anything. Many don’t like what they’ve seen so far, and as costs are predicted to increase, many may like it even less.


I think bells and whistles should have gone off in the minds of many when politicians who supported reform pushed to have mountains of documents pushed through at lightning speed so little was known on the details.

Like buying a home you haven’t inspected yet, but told to sign all papers in 10 minutes, this thing had trouble written all over it out of the gates….

[BigTom]

Due to the cost involved many employers are now dropping healthcare for spouses and it's supposed to get much worse next year when Obamacare is fully implemented. Nearly every promise Obama made about Obamacre and the projected costs have been grossly understated , face it people we were lied to. Repeated polls taken before Obamacare was voted on showed a majority of Americans didn't want Obamacare, but we got it rammed down our throats anyway. Sadly a voting majority knows this and supports and defends him anyway. Medical proffessionals are leaving the medical field in droves citing Obamacare as the reason. I believe if someone is stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot (repeatedly) they should be allowed to, hell it's their foot. But you dumbass Obama supporters are shooting the rest of us in the foot too. Please stop it you are screwing the rest of us.
Are you people blind? Your houses are worth way less, and unless you're way behind or under water it's almost impossible to refinance at the lower rates, many of you are facing major pay cuts, food costs are way up, fuel costs care way up, your retirement and investment savings are way down, we're being turned into a third world country (a second rate former world power at best) but you people still love Obama. Hasn't he taken enough from you? Even the poor and the middle class, who he claims to be helping, are doing worse than they have in decades. I get it you made history we got a black president, WHOPPI, but he's doing long term damage to this country that we may never be able to recover from.
I doubt if many of you would have gone on a second cruise with the captain of the Titanic, so why were you compelled to vote this fool back in? What has he done for the good of this country?

[Davdu]

I think we all need to reach the conclusion and understanding that all these extra taxes for a comprehensive healthcare system are in fact an investment in our nation. Then we be able to care for all our citizens just like Europe, and Japan, and Canada!

[KatherineA]

It isn't all good, but it isn't all bad either.

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/obamas-numbers/

Stock market is up, consumer confidence generally up, better than it was in 2008 as far as I am concerned.

[scottwilliams33]

Check out my predictions on this board on 08-04-2009, 11:10 AM#84 HealthCare Prediction

[ClearThunder]

Then we be able to care for all our citizens just like Europe, and Japan, and Canada!

No Davdu. It's not "we" when you speak in those terms. It's the Government. And it is not the job of the government to look after our welfare. The US government is not qualified to look after our welfare, nor are they qualified to make financial decisions that affect the citizens/taxpayers when they (the government) cannot even manage their own money.

[LazerFlash]

...unless you're way behind or under water it's almost impossible to refinance at the lower rates...

Well, from what I'm hearing from my S-SIL, this is just not true... Although he deals primarily in the VA market, the banks he's dealing with have been processing a record number of refinances over the past 6 months. In fact, he told me just this past week, that the main lender he deals with has had to add two full-time processors and a post-closing specialist just to deal with the volume of loans coming in. Now, this *may* partly be a regional thing where he is, but, at least as far as the VA refinances are concerned, it's not; many of those aren't even in the same time zone as his office is located. I also read somewhere that there have been reports that several states (such as Denver) are reporting 20-30% increases in deed-of-trust releases in 2012 compared to 2011. Deeds-of-trust are released when one of three things happen: a homeowner refinances a loan, sells their home, or pays off the loan securing their home.

[Chele]

And it is not the job of the government to look after our welfare.

Maybe not "look after," but surely "promote." There's this document that talks about that in the Preamble:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Thinking about that, the next question that comes up is, why do we have such a lousy government now? I don't mean that glibly, but as a challenge to think it through. As for the "health care" law, designed to perpetuate the control of medical decisions by financial companies (insurance "industry"), and incorporating elements like the Independent Payment Advisory Board (computerized, "best-practice" algorithms for whether you have a life worth [somebody paying for, in order for you to be] living), I think it's not in the general welfare, and that it's unconstitutional, criminal, and should be repealed. Along with the bailouts of other, related financial speculators.

[longleaf]

Why aren't people upset that insurance companies have enjoyed anti trust exemption for decades? Do people actually believe that Obama is raising their rates? Do people understand what a government-sponsored monopoly is?

This isn't about politics, people, it's about cash. Do some research...http://articles.cnn.com/2010-02-24/p..._s=PM:POLITICS

Why has this been stalled in the Senate?

[ClearThunder]

Good post Chele. You're right. My use of the word 'welfare' in that context certainly does not reflect the language used by Jefferson and others' who wrote the Constitution.

Perhaps 'economic welfare' would have been more appropriate. After all, America is the land of opportunity. It gave people freedoms from tyranny (although I sadly believe that freedom has slowly eroded the past few years), religious persecution, protected our speech, gave us the right to bear arms, and to achieve any level of success we want, so long as we are willing to work for it.

Unfortunately, government has gotten so big that it has now imploded. You wonder why we have such a lousy government now? That's a question that each and every one of us should ask while we stand in front of a mirror. After all, it was 'us' -- collectively, and through the years, who, through our votes, put people into office who submitted bills and, with the help of partisan, congressional cronies (and let's not forget the lobbyists), passed them, complicating the 'system' in so many layers that transparency will never be achieved at any level at any agency.

The only way to 'fix' the government is to dismantle it, starting at the top, and starting over. And that's not going to happen.

The Anarchists are having a field day.

[Kensey]

Due to the cost involved many employers are now dropping healthcare for spouses and it's supposed to get much worse next year when Obamacare is fully implemented.

What I'm seeing in reports is that working-spouse exclusions are on the rise where they have other insurance available through their employer. Nobody appears to be just cutting off spouses altogether even if they can't get other insurance.

Repeated polls taken before Obamacare was voted on showed a majority of Americans didn't want Obamacare, but we got it rammed down our throats anyway.

The funny thing about polls is how questions are worded. When people were asked "Do you support the proposed health care reform", most said no, but when they were asked about the key provisions they were in fact in favor of most of them. (The most-opposed one was the individual mandate, but without that, you don't get the rest.) The general up/down trend has been a roughly even split since the law was signed.

Medical proffessionals are leaving the medical field in droves citing Obamacare as the reason.

Are you referencing this survey?

Your houses are worth way less, and unless you're way behind or under water it's almost impossible to refinance at the lower rates, many of you are facing major pay cuts, food costs are way up, fuel costs care way up, your retirement and investment savings are way down

Housing prices started dropping like a rock long before Obama was elected, and the people who aren't underwater can refinance (the only reason we haven't is because we are, with a non-Freddie/Fannie loan -- and that does piss me off). Ditto gas prices rising (they've always risen over the long term, generally at about the rate of inflation so the real increase is nil compared to others costs of living), and the President has basically zero influence over that anyway. Food prices track with fuel prices. The stock market just hit a record high today, which is basically what retirement/investment accounts track.

[BigTom]

Some of you make interesting points and I'm too lazy to address each one, so I'll ask one simple question. How many of you are doing better than you were 5 years ago? Factor in your net worth, your home value, the value of your retirement account, your quality of life, and your take home pay compared to what your cost of living is now. Personally I think some of you are fooling yourselves because you're too proud to admit the truth to yourselves. Just keep ignoring the obvious maybe it'll just go away.

[Tony]

I think the reason so many Republicans are now swinging around and embracing Obamacare is because a lot of them changed jobs since they initially declared their opposition. I mean, it's easy for someone that's had a good job with good benefits for years to complain about it. But when they get laid off they suddenly find their entire family with no health insurance at all and that's very unsettling. They can see that big gleaming hospital, but they can't check into it without that magic plastic card.

Don't bother mentioning COBRA. It was a good idea, but at $1000+ per person per month it's really not an option for the unemployed.

[ClearThunder]

How many of you are doing better than you were 5 years ago?

Certainly not me, Tom. My house/mortgage is upside down. My pockets are inside-out. My retirement plan has to be raided to buy my own insurance since my primary employer had no choice but to drop their plan when premiums were raised by 40% after Obamacare passed. Paychecks are now just a receipt for my deductions. And for the first time in seven years, I owe the IRS money instead of the other way around.

Other than that, life under the Obama Administration is JUST GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't you see me jumping and kicking my heels in the air?

[Thomas and Melissa]

I’m shocked but not surprised that the feigned righteous indignation and moral outrage some have over the US spending billions of dollars on healthcare falls shamefully and immorally silent when confronted with the fact that billions of dollars are being spent by the US on at least two wars.

[Davdu]

Some of you make interesting points and I'm too lazy to address each one, so I'll ask one simple question. How many of you are doing better than you were 5 years ago? Factor in your net worth, your home value, the value of your retirement account, your quality of life, and your take home pay compared to what your cost of living is now. Personally I think some of you are fooling yourselves because you're too proud to admit the truth to yourselves. Just keep ignoring the obvious maybe it'll just go away.

I think a great many Americans were inebriated by the false sense of enrichment that happened during the previous decade. Made of us were fearless to take on debt, buy overvalued McMansions, eat out at pricey restaurants, etc. Who cared if housing prices escalated 20 times faster than real wages. Nobody questioned the financial Madoffs of Wall Street. As long as we were rich on paper we were ready to party. This decade now is about the reality of the hangover. And as far as healthcare costs ... blame it on the boomers ... many more folks needing medical services with fewer younger folks paying into the systems. I believe we'll have another 15 to 20 years of economic blues.

[KatherineA]

Some of you make interesting points and I'm too lazy to address each one, so I'll ask one simple question. How many of you are doing better than you were 5 years ago? Factor in your net worth, your home value, the value of your retirement account, your quality of life, and your take home pay compared to what your cost of living is now. Personally I think some of you are fooling yourselves because you're too proud to admit the truth to yourselves. Just keep ignoring the obvious maybe it'll just go away.

I am - my personal IRA (that I just started in 2011) is making money, my TSP is up, I was able to refinance the house at about 1/2 the interest rate I was paying. The only reason I am pretty much skating by day-to-day is because I haven't had a freakin raise since 2010 (2009?) because rather than close tax loopholes or otherwise act like grownups and discuss, compromise, make long term policy decisions, Congress would rather "balance" the budget on the backs of Federal workers and move from crisis to crisis without any thought.

[Tony]

... so I'll ask one simple question. How many of you are doing better than you were 5 years ago?

That probably has nothing to do with healthcare, but I just wanted to point out the better question would be if you were doing better during the Clinton administration. I think most all of us were. Like the guy said, at least on paper. Afterwards the entire world had to face up to reality.

[BigTom]

Certainly not me, Tom. My house/mortgage is upside down. My pockets are inside-out. My retirement plan has to be raided to buy my own insurance since my primary employer had no choice but to drop their plan when premiums were raised by 40% after Obamacare passed. Paychecks are now just a receipt for my deductions. And for the first time in seven years, I owe the IRS money instead of the other way around.

Other than that, life under the Obama Administration is JUST GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can't you see me jumping and kicking my heels in the air?

Kudos for being honest with yourself and admitting it publicly. Most people aren't doing that. People have gotten used to this new standard of living, it's been here for so long they convince themselves it's normal. They've convinced themselves that better times were not the norm and some how we're now paying for it. They blame the higher cost of living on inflation (even though we're told there's been little or no inflation in four years) but ignore the fact that their biggest asset (their home) has lost value or at the very least has stayed the same for years. They refer to the recent increases in the stock market as a positive sign ignoring the fact that the Fed is pumping billions of devalued dollars into the financial market and artificially holding down interest rates to prop it up.
Heathcare costs have gone way up for most Americans while coverage has been reduced. Obamacare has or is in the process of doing away with much of the preventative care we've come accustomed to. The devalued U.S. dollar has driven the cost of anything we purchase internationally (like food and fuel) way up. I've been an investor most of my adult life and have been through several economic slow downs. They last a few years but eventually the economy starts to show signs of recovery and things come back. Slow downs in the economy are just part of the natural cycle but this time we're 8 years into it with no real signs of a change and a President that seems to doing everything to keep it that way. Even going out out of his way to make sure we suffer as much as possible. Making cuts in the Federal budget geared to effect as many Americans as possible while lavishly spending money that benefit very few average citizens. But if y'all want to convince yourselves you're doing just fine go ahead, do whatever you have to do to get through (way down inside you know the truth). What the heck I'm making money, but like most of you no where near what we could and should be making. Welcome to Obama's America where the middle class will finally be punished for the success we've become accustomed to. Where hard work, a responsible life style, and achievement are punished (as it should be) and laziness, and a lack of responsibility are rewarded.

[KatherineA]

I should add, that my health care insurance has remained the same rate and it is an HSA plan.

To me, deciding on this plan was about taking responsibility for my own health, lowering my costs and figuring out a way to make do.

I always find it odd that those who purportedly want less govt. instrusion are the first to scream when they have to change their ways because the government isn't "helping" them.

I noticed that either you missed my post BigT or you just ignored it because it doesn't fit your perception that everything stinks under President Obama.

BTW he wasn't president in 2007 - 2008 during the crash, the first bailouts, and didn't start two unfunded wars and an unmonitored "rebuilding" plan for those two wars.